What A Sad Story! 1963 Alfa Romeo Spider
I could make the argument that classic car abuse of this type should be a crime! Perhaps the punishment could be reading through mountains of Craigslist ads for overpriced 15-year old “needs repaired” family sedans that have air conditioning that “just needs recharging”! Regardless, the poor 1963 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Spider that was the victim of this crime is listed for sale here on eBay, with a buy it now price of $18,500. The poor abused car is in Wylie, Texas.
So the story goes that the little car was left without anti-freeze in 1965 and the coolant froze and cracked the block. At that point in time, the Alfa only had traveled 11,505 miles. It was stored in a garage, presumably awaiting repairs that never came. We’re told it sat in that garage until 1999 when the car was purchased from the original owner. So, you must be asking yourself how did it acquire all the rust and lose all the parts (nothing that isn’t in the pictures is included in the auction)? Well, that second owner decided to sell parts off the car and must have stored it outside in Michigan afterward. Sigh. To the ad-reading with ye!
The Giulietta Spider was produced in various forms from 1955 to 1964. Designed by Pininfarina, the body lines are both classic and beautiful. There’s a nice little buying guide here from Road & Track that will tell you good ones will bring over $100,000. Unfortunately, since it’s missing an engine and many components, this one will require a lot of work and/or money.
The underside of the Alfa actually looks surprisingly solid, if empty. And please don’t tell me “LS swap!” in the comments–I’ll banish you to the ad-reading cell as well! I’d listen if you wanted to fit a later Alfa twin-cam, though.
That front valence will require some repair, but it’s still not the swiss-cheese I’ve seen on many older Italian cars.
Surprisingly, the floor is still there. It’s not going to be easy to source the missing parts, but to an ambitious home restorer with connections, it might just be worth it. Or if you know of an incredibly rusty but complete Spider maybe this is a bodyshell to transfer parts to? What would you do with this Spider — and more importantly, what punishment would you give classic car abusers?
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Comments
That’s going to be a tough but to crack, isn’t like your going to find the needed parts at a local pick aparts. Going to be sitting a while looking for parts to restore this little gem. Always thought these were good looking cars.
First and foremost the body shell needs a rotisserie restoration. I’d fab all my own pieces of sheet metal to repair the rust. This will cut down on costs for a good DIY fabricator. Then I’d put in a Toyota 22r engine and sr5 transmission. In these modern times missing parts that can’t be found can be made, so I think this a good DIY project for the right guy. As for the price this is way to high for what your getting.
with all respect .this comment about using a engine transplant kinda shows how uninformed and afraid folks are about these beautiful cars right..it just takes alittle time and a few phone calls ..it takes no more $$$ to restore them than a American Muscle Car…likely even less ..different strokes for Different fokes .
Great project. Not so great price. Owner probably got burned on what was paid for it or stood out in the cold and rain and watched it rust. Probably one of the best looking and driving small sports cars of the era. We have a red race car that runs Vintage at our events. Just looks good wide open or standing still.
Its not my cup of tea 🍵 but hopefully someone can use the internet to source some parts . I am sure there’s a online forums with some folks to assist or point the way. Its great that all originals i guess brings 100K but lets be clear / honest that this is not a all original and I don’t think the flipper / seller has the right price ….(cut it half or 60%+)
Good luck 👍and who knows maybe this car can assist a damaged car to that 100k threshold or vice versa
FYI
Hagerty Current Values
#1 Concours$95,100
#2 Excellent$58,400
#3 Good$36,500
#4 Fair$24,800
#4 vehicles are daily drivers, with flaws visible to the naked eye. The chrome might have pitting or scratches, the windshield might be chipped. Paintwork is imperfect, and perhaps the body has a minor dent. Split seams or a cracked dash, where applicable, might be present. No major parts are missing, but the wheels could differ from the originals, or other non- stock additions might be present. A #4 vehicle can also be a deteriorated restoration. “Fair” is the one word that describes a #4 vehicle.
Its a bearer market and Beverly Hill car club sales that sells classic to heaps of metal has a fee heaps hoping for 8900 to 18 sans everything but rust at no extra charge 👀
(Maybe a 70s Alfa model transfer of all parts to the listed 63? …Should parts never surface)
Careful on viewing link for those with expired tetrnus shots…
https://www.beverlyhillscarclub.com/inventory.htm?make=%5BAlfa%20Romeo%5D
That’s Richard Rawlings buddy Dennis Collins selling this. It won’t sell and you’ll be seeing it on Gas Monkey Garage
It will sell, eventually, after they drop the price. No you won’t see it in the TV show.
Steve R
The car was for sale in Detroit for $9500
New price $18500
The second owner never sold any parts
When he offer the car to me where more parts includes
Technically it is a Giulia spider. The Giulia differs in several ways from the Giulietta, 1600 vs 1300, slightly longer wheelbase, vent windows, different tail lights ECT. The Giulia spider came out in 62 but the Giulietta sedans continued until 65, yes it doesn’t make sense but that is Alfa. Just don’t rely on Wikipedia for accurate information on these.
I wouldn’t worry about dropping an LS in these, short of building a dedicated frame and cutting away the whole front end it will not fit, buy a cobra instead.
A 105 engine from a later car only fits with modifications. The oil filter fouls agains the frame rail and getting the headers to clear around the steering is a B I mean royal pain. Carburation has to be modified and the proper oil pan is a grand.
This one appears to be a normale and not a Veloce, back then that mattered as the veloce had a lot of different parts. Now it matters because a Veloce brings in about 25% more cash.
This thing is way overpriced. If it were complete and in this condition it would be worth 6 to 8k, as it sits maybe 3k
Kevin I hate to rain on your parade but this is a Giulietta Spyder from 1963 I know because I have owned more than a few of them over the years. The wheel base is the same as is the rest of the body with the exception of the front engine hood. The Giulia had a raised hood bulge that helped the taller 1600 motor to keep from bumping up and hitting the bodywork. It also had a 4 speed and to my knowledge almost all or all the Giulia’s had 5 speed transmissions. The drivers door is missing the chrome and brass support for the window and the fixed glass but the glass is easy to replace no so the metal part. Door handles and all the interior parts are easy but the Top Frame will be extremely hard to source as will the Stainless Steel surround behind the seats. Critical to find out if those parts are there.
NOW I am going to shock almost everybody here by saying that I think that the price of this car is not that far off. 10 to 15K is closer to the mark but that body is far better than most realize. The photos are terrible but on one of the shots I could see much of the engine and the other parts sitting to the side.
The 1300 motor is an amazing engine and for the day just fine. Even today a good motor, mine were all very reliable and extremely quiet motors. In traffic without the Tack it was often hard to tell if the engine was running.
Most of the front damage is minimal and the Stainless Steel and Brass Grille can be sourced as excellent reproductions. Same for any missing hubcaps which are really beautiful but do hide those amazing ALLFIN Drum Brakes. When they went to disk brakes on later models weight was lowered but the braking distance did not change. They worked perfectly and in the mountains of Colorado, Montana and Idaho they never faded or overheated.
Of important note if you are taller than average and I mean above 6′-2″ I would seriously look at purchasing this car and having it properly restored. It will be hard to see but the seats when pushed back also recline down. Under constant begging by my sister I sold my last one to her husband because it was the only car he ever sat in and drove that he fit in. Yes he was taller than 6′-2″
Now for the Rust. I bet that there is much less rust than you might think. I enlarged the photos and much of the rust at the bottom of the doors, the rocker panels and the front is surface rust that looks far worse than it is. ALFA used an extremely thick primer that they hand sanded to make the final paint look perfect. The rust on the rockers is from the clips used to hold the Stainless Steel trim that cover the weld seams and much of the rest looks to be shock damage.
I would love to see a photo of the block because often these can be fixed by a REALLY GOOD, REPEAT REALLY GOOD welder. I have seen it done on other ALFA engines of this era and later.
I am in the middle of two restorations now otherwise I would be checking this one out.
I have owned 4 of this model body both 1300 and 1600’s Few cars are as beautiful and when parked next to a Ferrari of the same time frame they gather just about as much attention. There is a reason they bring the price they do. It is because they are simple elegant transportation. Luggage space for two. Locking Gas cap under the trunk lid and reliable. Just one thing. THE HEATER IS NEAR WORTHLESS. And there is a nylon gear that keeps the wiper blades from banging again the fenders. Keep a spare or two. I know from experience LOL, most certainly replace the one that is there.
Nope sorry wrong
This is a 101 Giulia not a 750 Giulietta. The easy tell is that a Giulietta does not have vent windows and the Giulia does not.
The rocker panel on the 101 measures right at 61″ and for the 750 right at 59″. Why am I so certain of this, because as I type this I am sitting right in front of my 64 101 Giulia spider and my 59 is just over my shoulder beside my GTV6. I also have another 4 750/101 cars in the shop right not ranging from a gorgeous 65 101 spider to a 58 sprint in for restoration.
Brakes look to be drums all around, but this is the transitional year so it could have front disc. My 64 has disc in front and drums in rear, the 59 has drums all around, both work well but the drums are a pain to bleed. Thankfully this should not be a 3 shoe variant
62 spiders are the oddball year in which you could get the late model large tail lights with the 1300 engine and hood. 62’s can be a pain when getting parts.
But this is a 1963 Giulia. It originally came with a 1600cc engine with the bulge in the hood. It had a 5 speed as the 4 speed tunnel case was not used in 63.
I just walked over and checked out my spares and I have the correct engine, trans and diff for this car. I also have them in Veloce form but that I want to keep. I also have both a 1300 and 1600 hoods.
It is also a Normale and for a Normale with all that is missing it is way overpriced
The idea of sourcing all the parts to make this a complete car makes my blood run cold.
Maybe it will bring $18k since it’s celebrity owned. And maybe that buddy of his can autograph the glovebox.
This will sell for the right price. Nothing is impossible anymore to restore this car, as the pipeline has a good supply of parts. The car can be very reliable and is certainly a blast to drive when done right.
A couple of more comments. That tubular rack behind the seats is for the spare tire and the top fits above that. They came with a pair of covers and a toneau cover from the factory. The floor had rubber mats for the drivers and passengers seats as did the trunk. There was carpet to the sides and over the transmission tunnels.
The engines have SODIUM Filled exhaust valves. Be ware of this when doing engine work. That Sodium distribute heat and the exhaust valves last much longer than in most cars of the era. The exhaust manifold is cast iron but are held in place with brass nuts that never will rust tight. The oil pan is also cast aluminum and has a brass nut for an oil plug with a magnet in it from the factory. These were not cheap cars then and so many of the details you see when restoring one it becomes obvious why.
I have taken 2000 mile trips and have driven over 1000 miles in a day with one. Comfortable cruiser but not fast in excelleration. Just not that much torque from that 1300 engine. Drive in the Spring, Summer and Fall, park it in the winter months. Plan on talking to almost everybody after it is restored. Look on the internet for good ones as a basis. This is as detailed as a Maserati, or Ferrari of the era and many of the parts (like door handles and many others) are exactly the same. I know because I have owned a Maserati and helped restore a few Ferraris of this era.
I think this would be a good candidate for an electric conversion.
Now to get serious.
I know this is a lot to ask, but I wish people would get out of this rut of only restoring cars if it makes financial sense. Especially cars that are somewhat reasonable (say $50k or less). Granted, that’s a lot for many of us. But chump change for many as well.
But what about restoring them just for the love of the automobile. Someone that cares about cool old cars and doesn’t want to see them 6 feet under. Especially cars that you rarely see. And have some history behind them.
In my case, my neighbor had one while I was in high school (1966). It was a beautiful car. The engine was aesthetically gorgeous as the body was. And for sure it sounded great and was a trip to drive.
He would take myself and one other guy to school everyday. . We would kick in a couple of dollars a week for gas money. Whoever sat in the middle had to lift his leg up when/if my friend had to shift into fourth.
Point being, let’s pay it forward for the pleasure that classic, iconic cars have given us. I know that they have enriched my life, particularly as a car lover.
Peace out, my friends.
I’d opt for the new 2.0 turbo direct injected 4 cyl in the current Alfa Guilia…Use the PCM from a wrecked Jeep Cherokee or Wrangler and you’d have a reasonable cost fix
Most Americans look at this as pos ,pile of junk ,would not waste my time on this garbage
Wow, I’m so glad someone pointed that out. Otherwise I never would have noticed that most Americans are uninterested in restoring vintage sports cars. Such a prescient comment.
I’ve always considered old Alfa’s to be old Ferrari’s next door neighbor. I bet some of the same workers had a hand in building both.
The old Harrah’s , In Sparks, NV would bring in derelicts from the desert, and rebuild them to factory new. Money was no object. It can be revived if you have the $.
I did some further checking on this car, and pulled it up in Fusi’s book. Fusi for those that don’t know is the authority on Alfa Romeo’s.
The car is definitely a Giulia and not a Giulietta, and it is a 101 car. But it is a 1962 model and not a 1963. Giulia spider normale chassis numbers for 1962 ran from 370001 to 371904 for 1963 they ran from 375146 to 378687 for the Oddball guiletta 101 the chassis numbers run from 171904 to 173086.
This means it was built in the latter part of 1962 and it was built as a 1600 Giulia with a 5 speed
Alfa’s are really confusing in this period, but here is a rough explanation. In 1963 all spiders were Giulia’s with 1600, that is what this was listed as and I knew Giulietta’s were not produced in 1963. THis car is actually a 1962 which is a confusing year, as you got both the 101 Giulia and Giulietta, the big difference between the two is 1600 vs 1300 and the hood. The 750 Giulietta which was produced up til 1960 is the same basic car but with a 2 inch shorter wheelbase. It uses the same hood as the 101 giulietta but difference in the doors and wheelbase.
Transmissions also changed, all Giulias had 5 speed transmission, all Giulietta’s up til 1962 had 4 speed. In ’62 you could get a Giulietta with either a 4 or 5 speed and it seemed to be random but most had 4 speed.
Being a 62 this had drums all around, disc were not standard on the front until 64 though I have seen a few 63’s with them.
As stated in an earlier post ’62’s are the most confusing, and for them I always contact the factory for a build sheet. You can get that info from writing to here
Sig. Elvira Ruocco
Centro Documentazione Storica
Alfa Romeo
Viale Alfa Romeo
I-200020 Arese (MI)
Italy
If you want a much better starting point here is one that is currently for sale
https://www.ebay.com/itm/223872713197 starting bid is 20k and I think it will go for 25-30k. It is a veloce and in much better shape, but it is in Hawaii.
Confusing isn’t it.
For what it’s worth, Ms Ruocco is long-since retired.
You are correct I think it is Macro Fazio now. If you write to Ms Ruocco I think he is getting all the info addressed to her.
Also Email address is [email protected]
Would this car be a true Guilia 1600 with two shoe front brakes ?
I thought the Giulias all had three shoe front drums or later on disc brakes. The original title says Giulietta
This guy needs to start writing fiction books. Ruff life this low mileage specimen lead……….
these were the kinda cars I got as a kid. Admittedly in better shape – engine, drivetrain in, running etc. But my buddies had the muscle. Funny thing is – I got the great girls…the thinkers, theater kids, good students. My buds w/the stang, 442, etc got the big hair girls (this is late ’60s). 50 yrs later I’m tinkering/sellin the Thriftpower i6, foxes R commin in now, ’50s, 60s alfas, MGs, europeans. Those guys R in wheelchairs, dead, etc…wasss it all abt Alphie?
What?
why do people do this to cars like this?
Time to swap in an L…
Kidding!!! 😁
This would be a great candidate for EV Conversion. Being it is so small, it would have balls and youd be one of the few with something other than a VW based conversion. Someone please show this to the folks at EV West.
Cummins BT Swap ????