Unrestored Survivor: 1978 Fiat 124 Spider
“No toilet offers”: that should guide your approach on engaging with the seller of this very clean 1978 Fiat Spider convertible, who acquired it from the long-term family owners. There’s only 42,000 original miles, and based on appearances, I can’t say I blame the seller for looking to stop any low-balls in their tracks. These convertibles rarely show up in condition like this, as they’ve been cheap to buy for years but still require a fair amount of upkeep. This example has clearly been loved, and you can find it here on craigslist with an asking price of $9,950. Thanks to Barn Finds reader Ikey H. for the find.
From one end to another, this Spider looks incredibly clean. The top appears to be in minty shape with a clear rear window. The chrome accents show no signs of age and the period-correct luggage rack doesn’t show much in the way of use. The paint isn’t the most exciting color but it’s also an easy shade to maintain as it likely hides swirls well. These certainly weren’t the best two-seater convertible you could buy in 1978, but in general, your options weren’t great. At least the Fiats offered Italian style conceived by none other than styling house Pininfarina, and even offered some racing pedigree thanks to Abarth tuning some examples up for use in the WRC.
The seller claims this Fiat has been dealer-maintained since new, which begs the question as to whether it spent the first few years visiting the selling Fiat dealership for regularly scheduled maintenance before moving onto specialist shops once Fiat closed its doors in the U.S. Regardless, given the Spider shows well across almost all areas, including the highly detailed engine bay, there’s little doubt the long-time owners cared for it at a high level. The seller claims it runs and drives like new with no issues at all, and I’m guessing there are very few unrestored 124 Spiders on the marker today that can claim that.
The interior is a treat and in truly beautiful condition. Anecdotally, I found a Spider similar to this in a local junkyard in surprisingly complete condition, even riding on a nice set of Panasports. It did have rust issues, but the interior looked as good as this one, despite having a torn top and windows down – which makes me wonder if the materials are particularly hard-wearing, as the seats still looked great. Obviously, this one has survived as well as it has because of long-term preservation and low mileage, and that’s really the best way to buy a classic Italian car. The seller is open to trades, so there may be some flexibility in the price – as long as it’s not toilet-grade.
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Comments
Nice looking.. probably rust free, coming from Montana.
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Lampredi Twin Cam is one of the best engines ever designed
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.Great writeup, Jeff. 124’s in anywhere close to this condition are very hard to find, and this one is a keeper, and the price is reasonable. If I didn’t just buy a 124 Coupe, it would be heading to Alabama.
Hey D O R, what year 124 coupe did you buy? ……….I bought a new one in 1970, $3264!……….loved that car, body was rust prone (Chicago) and drove it everywhere till some guy came on the Expressway the wrong way and hit me head on in the right lane. I did not expect that, but saw it coming and was able to slow down. I gripped the steering wheel so tight that on impact it broke thru the dash and into the windshield. I had a lap belt on, and was stunned but OK in a couple days. Always wanted to buy another. Loved the sound of that engine. Pure music.
You obviously have a passion for these cars, and that’s cool, I do not. There’s a reason you never see one today. They, for a while, were very popular. You might remember, I had a friend that sold Fiats in the early 80’s. He told me, the 124 roadster was the staple of their repair business, and there were, at any given time, at least half a dozen behind the shop waiting on repairs. I saw them lined up with all the pretty colors. Nice cars, but I believe an interference motor, and if the belt broke, and they did, it was scrambled eggs, and most junked the car. I remember junkyards full of these.
There are a plethora of reasons why you might not see them today, although I still do once in a while:
There were only about two hundred thousand produced for worldwide consumption, the last one thirty-five years ago.
They rust like ’70s Fords.
They’re maintenance intensive and they were designed when maintenance wasn’t expensive. When the cars were cheap and the work was premium priced, they were often neglected.
The Miata came along to do everything better than the European and British sports cars, and the result was that the only reason to have an Alfa-Romeo, Austin-Healey, FIAT, MG or Triumph was because you liked working on them instead of driving.
The point is that they aren’t rare because they are particularly feeble mechanically relative to their peers. They’re rare because they were never as common as you think and they’re obsolete. In 2008 I was still seeing them daily on the streets of San Diego, and that made them darned old for daily drivers. Throw in SMOG checks, and the cars being used to putter around Pacific Beach and La Jolla were either pre-1976 models or remarkable in being able to pass inspection. Most cars made after 1975 get scarce after ten years in regressive California. The FIATs did vanish from San Diego over the next five years, replaced by people living in old vans and under bridges. Ragtops aren’t the thing to have when there are four waves of scavengers stealing anything that isn’t welded down every day.
Howard if you don’t like these, why do you keep commenting on them.
I run a vintage car shop that works on euro cars and mostly British and Italian. I like British cars but Fiat was so far ahead and so much better built it was not funny. When I have an Italian car customer ask why I like British cars. I say they are fun but you have to pretend they are 20 to 30 years older than the contemporary Italian car.
That little Fiat in 1978 was probably the best 2 seat inexpensive convertible sportscar that you could buy then. The only thing that could give it a run for the money was the more expensive Alfa or its stalemate the X1/9. The British stuff wasn’t even close.
Yes I’m sure Mustang King Cobra II with 132hp out of a 5 liter
Ps. If i see them in Chicago they gotta be around
CJinSD
I agree with most of your statements but your logic went South:
2. Mazda didnt do anything better. First miata was made in 1989. The Fiats 124 or Alfas spiders were from the early to mid 60ties when mazda was making 15 horsepower shopping cart size cars (the 360) and the british cars were 1930ties technology (excluding TVR and Jags)
2. comparing Alfa Romeo to a miata, the first one is a premium brand maybe a tad under BMWs.
What don’t Miatas do better? Are you suggesting because they’re newer their incorporated advancements don’t count? Are we making believe that the Fiat, Alfa-Romeo or MG could have done as well if they’d still been in the market?
Alfa was still peddling the same dinosaur until 1994. The Miata was…a twenty-two year newer design with quality Alfa-Romeo hadn’t thought about since before WWII. The next Alfa ‘sports car’ was a 3.000 lb FWD barge, an Italian Chrysler Sebring.
Fiat eventually came back into the space with the Barchetta, another FWD compromise like the Australian Mercury Capri. Today, Fiat sells Miatas as 124 Spiders, just not as good because they have Fiat heat pumps instead of Mazda’s 181 horsepower naturally aspirated tribute to a fast-vanishing era of middle class privileges.
MG eventually resurfaced with the MGF. I’ve seen some internet warriors claim the K-series Rover engine was good, but I’ve never seen any evidence of that claim based on reliability indices.
It may be your opinion that the Miata is only better because it has been designed with the benefit of microprocessors and assembled with the benefits of Edward Deming’s principles of continuous improvement, but that still makes a Miata a superior choice for someone who appreciates cars for the enjoyment of driving.
@Kevin, it’s just another opinion about a certain car, it’s why are here, to express what they experienced. Someone may think , “oh, what a cute car”, and it is, but I’d like to have all opinions about peoples experiences with a car before I plunked down a wad of cash, and at their introduction, it failed REGULARLY for many, THAT’S why you don’t see many. Unlike say, a Toyota, very few bought another Fiat. It’s like peoples opinions about K-cars. I had the best of luck with all I had, while someone trashes them bitterly. Today, sure, it’s a fun find, but I’m sorry, to me, Fiat was Studebaker of Italian cars.( no offense to Stude lovers) They were ok, but there are much better Italian cars.
@ howard
Yes it is your opinion, and how would you like it if someone came on constantly and trashed the cars that you like. I despise muscle cars and I can’t find any redeeming value in them, they are heavy, they don’t brake or handle well and they were not put togather well at all, but I do not comment on muscle cars they are not my thing. The US just did not produce sports cars during the 70’s, and I like sports cars.
The Fiat is far superior than any British car in both reliability and engineering. Not even close. I work on a lot of British cars and for each one that comes on this web site I could write a diatribe about what is wrong with them. But I don’t, while they are not the best built and are a bit archaic they have there own special fun factor.
And sorry Fiat’s were in many ways better than their Italian contemporaries. Ferrari and Lamborghini built beautiful drive lines but everything else was crap. Lancia by this time period was just an upmarket Fiat. I own 8 Alfa Romeo spiders ranging from a 1959 to a 1990 so you could say I kind of like them, but the contemporary Fiat is just as good if not better in many ways.
And Fiat’s twin cam’s are very reliable and tough engines. The engine won 10 world rally championships and add a couple of world sportscar championships, and won in group 4 with a 124 spider such as this. Also I have driven literally thousand of miles in 124’s including an epic trip that traveled from St. John’s in Newfoundland to the Darian Gap in Panama and back. It was a great trip in a great sports car and my only issue was knocking off the exhaust on some Mexican topes.
If your idea of a good car is the K-car perhaps you are on the wrong web site and should I suggest consumer reports. I would rather drive around in a cramped Lotus Esprit that I know would break down every 500 miles than drive the most reliable K car in the world.
So do me a favor if you don’t like the cars, and you obviously have not spent any time owning one, don’t comment. And I will not have to waste my time by trashing the cars that you like.
Is there any rule about pointing out when a seller is a compulsive liar?
1. I think even the Pininfarina/Bertone dealers of Malcolm Bricklin imports closed up shop around 1985, leaving no dealer support for FIATs for more than twenty years before their current attempt. I wonder what a dealer of Mexican 500s does when you ask him for a set of 124 ball joints?
2. One owner before him? That’s known as two owners, particularly when his reason for sale is a reduction in car storage space.
3. If a reduction in car storage is his reason for selling, why is he open to trades for other cars, trucks, sand rails, and side by sides? Space is not his reason for selling.
He’s a car flipper. There’s nothing wrong with finding a car, buying it with shrewd negotiation, marketing it effectively, and then selling it with shrewd negotiation for a profit. He seems ashamed to be a car flipper, which is the reason for some of the lies. The imaginary dealer maintenance? I wouldn’t buy this car without a full inspection, a title in hand, and a #4- price.
That’s a bit harsh. Unless you know this guy personally, I would tone down the rhetoric. Some people are just misinformed, not necessarily liars. Though I don’t disagree at all with your conclusions on inspection, etc.
I owned one of these back in the mid 80s. Fun to drive, when running, maintenance boiled down to a choice – make the payment or fix the car. It was repo’d after 18 months. It was running at time!
Nice looking ’78 Spyder! :-)
I could “social distance” in this thing all year long!
I’ve always liked these cars, even with their reputation for not being extremely reliable. (FIAT = “Fix It Again Tony” or “Feeble Italian Attempt at Transportation”) :-P
Back in the early 80’s a buddy of mine had a “well worn” one of these for a few months one summer. (…long story, but it was used as a partial payment for a nice Chevy truck that he had sold.) That car was a ton of fun! You could unlatch the top & drop it down one-handed, without even needing to ever leave the driver’s seat!
Top down driving, sporty performance, decent handling, decent gas mileage, Pinafarina styling, etc. etc.. What more could you want with summer fast approaching?
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I’d suggest that buyers ask to see the service records to confirm that it was done by a FIAT-familiar shop (i.e. not by Walmart, or by Bubba’s garage!)
I’d also check that critical maintenance items have been recently performed. (Timing Belt replacement would be at the VERY TOP of my check list, as even with the low mileage I wouldn’t trust a 42 year old rubber timing belt!) :-O
These cars had great styling and were fun to drive, my brother had one; he had to tune it up very time there was a change in barometric pressure, and he got pretty good at it. I always broke his chops about there being virtually no difference between 4th and 5th gear. Fiat = Fix It Again Tony.
No low offers, because Mr. Flipper does not want to sell the car for as low of a price as he paid for it.
I had a ’68’ which ran and ran and ran, and I always had my foot in the grille with the tach at or near redline, but it would not quit.
matt
One should think of FIAT as the GM of Europe, they built everything from appliances to heavy rail. They also dragged their feet on upgrading as time required.
That said, this car has zinc coated steel in the outer boxes, factory pinstripes still evident and an electric fuel pump.
They never removed the eccentric lobe for the mechanical fuel pump, which was the biggest reason for the interference. (but, you can) 30k on a belt’s life was normal for early OHC’s (read poncho 6)
The trans on these were the true weak point, originally designed for 1ltr. engines (as a 3-spd) and expanded to the 5-spd seen here.
Although FIAT had the ZF designed 5spd. available (used in the 131’s from ’75 on) PF never used them, Shame, as they are bullet proof. I am currently swapping the trans in my ’81 cause I’m tired of pulling it out before the belt’s due (twice now!!) The steering box is still worm-n-roller also!
But, if you like top down motoring in a capable roadster, hard to beat these for the $.
Fling It Around Turns!!
And just like Lord of Darkness Lucas, you need to clean and paint GROUNDS!!! (Just sayin’)
And his ask is at the top, lots running around under this price, IMHO, but I do like this color, lol.
Kevin L Harper – your comment about the difference between British and Italian cars seems spot on. I once owned a -54 Austin A40 Somerset and a -53 Fiat 1900 at the same time in the late 1980’s and the difference was astounding. The A40 drove like it was from the 1930’s and you really couldn’t use it other than for classic car events. The Fiat drove like a 1970’s car, and I used it as my daily driver. (Yes, a slightly unfair comparison as the Fiat probably cost like 3 of the Austins when new, but it was such a huge difference in driveability between the two)
I have owned 2 of these, the 1st one new in ’78 the second one early 90’s. The new one was fun and loved the small back seat for kids, groceries, adult sitting sideways. Drove it once hard around hairpin curves in E. Oregon with big drop offs. Next day, driving straight city road 30 mph the rear axle broke. They would still be looking for my body if it happened the day before. Second one was an even swap with my Mustang mechanic for my ’66. He had personalized license plate “eh tony”. I loved that license. Had too many toys, 280Z and 65 Mustang convertible so I sold the Fiat and Z car same day, posting both and thinking I would sell the first offer and keep the other but both sold within hours. Thinking I got about $2500 for each. Wish I had all of them back. Regerts.
An early 90’s? Fiat stopped manufacturing in 82 and Pininfarina stopped in 85.
I think he was saying he had a new one in ’78 and another (used) one in the ’90s.
Don, I owned it in early 90’s. Think it was a’79 or ’80.
Lost a work buddy like that last year, he went head on to stop a wrong way driver on I94 (around half day rd in lake co). He was a great trooper.
When ot comes to.this Fiat its a good investment as they do.have a following in Europe.
Aurelio lampredi was an awesome engine designer responsible for a bunch of ferrari engines and the twin cam fiat was in use from 1966 till 2001!
This was to “On and On” as he mentioned crashing head on in one of these.
Thanks POP, I think I lived because it actually folded up the way it was supposed to, crushed properly. Shoulder belts would have helped my buddy, the passenger that day, as he went face first into the windshield. We both had concussions and they picked glass out of him for a long time. As far as I’m concerned the car did it’s job. Great brakes, I slowed down from 70 to about 30mph but couldn’t get out of the way. BTW what hit me was a 1965 Lincoln……..sheeeeesh! Driver was drunk. Hope he burns in hell, or is already. My ex-wife will join him some day, but that’s a whole different story……….LOL
And so sorry to hear about your buddy, you are obviously a trooper too? That’s a tough and demanding job to be in. I don’t personally break the law so I can appreciate the help without reservation. There’s a special spot up in heaven for you guys, when you get there they’ll direct you to a seat up close. Thank you for your service.
Any post-’74 Fiat can represent a problem for a California buyer, especially if it’s from a basically unregulated state. For anyone buying a CA smog-controlled Fiat or Alfa, it can work the other way IF you can afford it! I had a ’76 Alfetta GT whose engine had been strangled down to maybe 80+ hp, running rougher than yr average cob. I lucked into an out-of-state buyer with enough time and money to turn the thing over to a good shop in Santa Ana, where it was transformed into a nicely restored 49-State car, with all its designed output plus a bit, and then sent to a rural area of Colorado. I suppose it’s still enjoying life there …
I’d not seen some of the adverse comments previous to this, but I know that one can get excellent service back in Nashville for Fiats and Alfas, while here in SoCal such service is widespread. The shop I’ve been frequenting in Burbank has done everything from replacing much of my Milano’s transaxle after the lousy ABS set it on fire, to tuning both our now-departed 164S and my Milano to pass the smog test with better numbers than my much newer Subaru! And at reasonable rates as well.
I am not sure how well the new Alfas will take – well into the third year of the marque’s return, the Giulias are relatively common here in and around Pasadena, but that was the story with Teslas too, and those aren’t exactly crowding out the SUVs and Jeeps. Mrs. O has a near-base-model ’17 Giulia which she dearly loves; I like it for long trips because it’s fast and comfortable to drive, and rock-steady through some rough storms we’ve driven through, but its lousy outwards visibility and too-low front spoiler – grounds on all the parking roll-forward strips! – make it no fun for me in town. But on a winding rural two-lane it’s sheer heaven.
From the trunk photo it looks like replacement rear shock towers have been welded in? Can’t see the fronts, but this is a frequent death-by-rust issue for 124s.
I helped a very close friend’s widow sell a 1978 last summer. It was interesting to see that there are as many whack jobs interested in Fiats as there are in any other make. A lot of folks here put “flippers” down, but if they deal with the types of people I ran into selling the Fiat on a daily basis, I say they earn their money. It’s kind of like putting teachers down until you spend a morning reading to 1st Graders.
Man I’m late to the party. Couple things, seller is certainly a flipper, so he should just dispense with the rhetoric and just sell the car. And Jeff, this certainly wasn’t the best 2 seater you could buy in ’78, cause it’s not a two seater! That backseat is about worthless but it is there. With all of that said, could you all please just forget about that car for about 6 months? Last year I made a plan, and it’s completely my together. I bought my truck, (tired of asking my buddies to pull the boat) I got my dog, (Daisy) next is a fun summertime car but work is slow so the fun summertime car isn’t going to happen in time for this summer but I’ll be looking around October or so. Really prefer a Spitfire but that vestigal backseat is perfect for a Basset hound. So yeah, everyone ignore this car for a bit, please.
The “back seat” was there due to some silly EPA rule back in the day, the made it advantageous to have a back seat. Porsche did the same with the 911. I think the rule must have changed at some point because the later pinifarina spiders just had a shelf.
I have ridden in the back seat and ferried a few people in it, but the car is really a two seater with a nice storage place behind the front seats.
Grant – That “vestigial” back seat is one I rode in for an hour or two, just to see what that was like, while my then-wife drove it (for the same reason). Having in my twenties ridden 500+ miles over a weekend in the back “seat” of a Healey 3000, I was used to cramped quarters as long as I didn’t have to operate any machinery. The Fiat was much more comfortable; good thing, because I was almost twenty years older!
All of the 124 Fiats are on my good-guys list, from the sedans through the coupes to the Spiders … actually in reverse order, since any good small 4-door is about my favorite kind of car. As for that engine, both it and the single-cam (also from Lampredi) are strong, reliable, and very nice to use.
Hey, Jeff. Would it have killed you to indicate in your write-up that the car is located in Billings, MT. Later on, when someone finds your excellent story after the CL listing has expired, they will have no idea where the car came from. Some of us like that tid-bit of information.
Nice car, BTW. I had a ’78 myself. The last good carburetor before they ruined the car with the ’79 model
t-bone, I almost agree with you on that, but as far as I’m concerned none of the PF cars interest me at all. That earlier one I both rode in and drove was sweet and lively, a totally engaging little thing. Several years later I borrowed a friend’s later one, and I might as well have been driving a Buick. Now, I do not (and did not) know the actual year of it, but the only thing interesting about it was the top went down.