Lightweight Project: 1963 Jaguar E-Type Roadster
The owner of this 1963 Jaguar E-Type Roadster states that he has been collecting all of the components with a view to constructing an aluminum-bodied E-Type Lightweight replica. There are plenty of people who would argue that what he has is already pretty lightweight and that any work performed from here is only going to add weight to the vehicle. The Jaguar is located in Weymouth, Massachusetts, and is listed for sale here on eBay. The owner has set the listing to open at $21,500, but there have been no bids to this point.
When it comes to the body of the Jaguar, it really is pretty simple. The body is toast. There might be a few minor trim pieces that can be saved, but even those pieces are few and far between. There is a passenger-side door glass present, and the wheels look like they could be restored. I was going to suggest that the rest of the body should then be sent to the crusher, but I suspect that you could crumple it up like a paper napkin with your bare hands. However, the owner does intend to reinforce what is left of the body and mount it on a cart for transport to the next owner.
I agree with the owner that the gauges and a few dash components are salvageable, but given the fact that those items and the steering wheel are all that is left of the interior, I guess that the optimists would say that 100% of the existing interior trim could be reused. The lack of interior trim items means that the shopping list for parts is going to be quite long. I did do a bit of scouting around, and a full upholstery kit, including all of the seat padding and leather covers, is available for around $6,000. Still, if someone does take this one on as a restoration project, that’s going to be something that is a very long way down the track from here.
Apart from the original Plate and the title, the Jaguar comes with a 1963 E-Type 3.8-liter engine, and 4-speed full synchromesh transmission. There is no word on the condition of either item, so that’s a bit of a lucky dip. The car still has all of its original suspension in place, and the owner believes that these items could be restored. Given the advanced level of decay across the entire car, I’m really not sure just how much could be salvaged. Items like brake discs, calipers, hoses, wheel bearing, and suspension bushes, would all need to be replaced anyway. That potentially doesn’t leave a huge catalog of parts to restore.
I always say that no car is beyond restoration, given enough time and enough money. The question there though is whether such a restoration makes sound financial sense. Even though a Series I E-Type can command a healthy 6-figure price once restored, I simply don’t believe that there is enough of the original car left here to justify restoration. I understand what the owner was trying to achieve because aluminum replicas of the Jaguar Lightweight body are available from organizations such as Gregson Polska, and the quality of these looks to be quite impressive. Once again though, once completed, the car still isn’t going to be an original, numbers-matching 1963 E-Type, and this will impact the car’s ultimate value. A beautiful replica, similar to what this owner intended to build, recently sold for $161,000. That’s some serious cash, but if you start to add together the price of the replica body-shell, the mechanical components that would be required, and the miscellaneous material and labor costs, then such a project is going to be undertaken more for love than money. Would you take it on, or do you think that this is a project that simply isn’t viable?
Auctions Ending Soon
2002 Subaru Impreza WRXBid Now5 hours$333
1975 Chevrolet Corvette ConvertibleBid Now6 hours$4,000
1964 Ford F-100 Camper CustomBid Now7 hours$2,000
2006 Jeep Wrangler SportBid Now2 days$11,000
1974 Datsun 260ZBid Now4 days$750
Comments
I love an XKE but I’m concerned about what the owner is smoking! He might be eating rust chips from this pile!
“My ‘ol man is a TV repair man. He has this ultimate set of tools. I can fix it!” -Jeff Spicoli
The white wall snow tire on the right rear is comedy gold……..
This is scrap, too much lightness has been added.
I would say the car fell on this guy’s head
And if it had a Porsche badge on it he could double the ask.
Yep!
Looks like it has been sitting at the bottom of a lake for 40+ years.
The price is simply too low for what the seller offers.
My counter is 1,021,000. Grains of sand. Which would sift through my fingers slower than the remains of this car would.
Looks like a morgue shot.
It looks like one of the tire valve stem caps could be salvaged. $21k+ for one of these seems pretty steep to me.
I this should straighten easily and buff out
Seller has got to be kidding…
What the WHAT!!! This is a fine piece of British automobilism!! The seller knows what he has here and what its worth!! Uhhh alrighty then I’m done…yabba dabba DON’T…Jeez this is getting crazy
Who doesn’t love an E-type? This one is just a case of some bastard, or series of bastards, allowing this to happen to one of the most beautiful cars of all time. Even so I clicked on the image just to see if there was any hope. There’s not.
There’s never been a Porsche that looked this good and there have been a lot of yard art cars in BF. An E-type you can sit and stare at for hours, letting your eyes caress its curves. This one is just so sad. It hurts the psyche to contemplate it.
Why does this happen? Not just to this Jag, but to so many cars we see here? Is it ego? Too much money in the hands of Philistines? Or a horrible combination of stupid and lazy?
Circumstances have a habit of sidetracking even the best of us, and the road to perdition is paved with good intentions. We need a proven methodology to pierce through the hoarder mentality to get these cars into the hands of someone with a sympathetic eye.
At this point I’m not so sure that this car wouldn’t have been better off in a museum or a private collection, even if it were a garage queen. To let it deteriorate to this condition is simply a crime.
Crumple it up and bury it with the t-bird
I’m going to try not to think about this car either….
This is an April Fool’s Day joke, right?
How are the electrics?
Does getting hit by lightning count?
Ran when parked.
No bids yet?
Hmm. Go figure.
Think I saw this on an episode of punked.
Father and son project
Wants $21,500? As an older W.Virginia born neighbor lady used to say…”And people in hell want ice water, too”.
Particularly appropriate here. :)
Idea for a vanity plate for this—-WEEGEE
Will need about 4 or 5 decent pallets to get it to bj lmao..and a few crates🤣
Rare early folding-floor option.
I thought maybe it was a plexiglass floor ….or maybe someone left the “stow away” door open?
Great comments. Sad car.
I am a huge proponent of “don’t crush em, restore em” but really…..this one is not a parts car, more like a Part car, like one, like the RF wheel looks ok.
I know nothing about Jaguars, so said to want to make a “replica” means there WERE original factory lightweights and if this one WERE a real one I could see the optimism of the money pit resto but to make a replica…..start with a better donor and save a ton of time and a ton of money. Just sayin.
Owner: “I know what I’ve got…..”
Me: “Yeah, delusions”.
I like the way they’ve used Dexion shelving uprights to stop it from breaking in the middle, cool idea, have to remember that one just in case, too bad about getting the doors to open.
“Oh no,look what Dr.Evil has done to my beloved Shaguar!”
Austin Powers
I vote crack pipe
The cat is dead 💀
Leave it for the vultures 😔
For a couple more grand, the choice is clear. This sold for $26,000. https://barnfinds.com/parked-for-a-decade-1972-jaguar-e-type/
Why on earth would you want to spend roughly the same amount for SO MUCH MORE sheet metal, and seats, and glass, and… ? Put that eBay listing up on a lift and you won’t have the same excitement of dodging rusty bits that fall off. The majestic pile of iron oxide seen here, however, comes with the *fun* of trying to prevent a complete collapse when attempting to move it in one piece.
My ghawd man– the eBay listing actually looks like a CAR, but the seller here is trying to sell a perfectly prepared HEAP! Let’s give the customer what they want.
He is selling the VIN tag. You get and engine for free.
Insanity takes many forms!
I give the seller credit for making a wise decision. He could have picked his nose and scratched his butt for two hours but chose to list a pile of crap for an insane amount of money..I wouldn’t want to see his next smooth move but I’m sure it will put him ahead of the game – his game that is..
Did “Tool Man Taylor” drop a steel beam on it????
This is GLORIOUS!
So you get an engine and transmission of unknown condition, and maybe four restorable wheels for an opening bid of $21,500? I am not a follower of Jaguars at all, but the seller has to be certifiably insane.
I disagree the seller is not insane the buyer is…!
After careful analysis I have concluded this Jag has been undervalued because …
What?
Oh, sorry. Gotta go. The orderlies are here with my happy pills.
I just put a puzzle together last week. Bet this puzzle will take longer.
Start with the edges. Asphalt floors are an old idea.
If hauled on an open trailer, the bad parts will leave flying. Whats left, if anything, reassemble. Should take a few minutes.
Um, No.
Read “Bernie & Crass” in the new Car Craft.
Eureka ! I figured it out!!! This guy is best friends with that 356 owner we saw a few weeks back…
With that much rust in view, can you imagine the condition of the inside of frame tubes?
Surely this is insanity at its peak. CCRRTT said it 100%.I can’t even begin to count how many cars have been just on this site alone that have been aloud to get in almost this bad a shape. There must be a underground band of insane clown’s that hate cars roaming the country side putting spell’s on people.Yes, there should be a law against this. It looks like a T Rex sat on it and then to have the nerve the gall the balls to ask 21,500.00. I have to take a rest now. this is beyond the pale. Later……………………………….JIMMY
At this time, 66 people are watching this auction…….
Why?
To see if anyone is dumb enough to bid.
The early E-Types are one of the top tier, best looking cars of all time. Jaguar design sketchers hit it out of the park with this one. They drive as nice as they look, but Lucas electrics and the general British engineering theme of the day, that cars are something one tinkers on, CONSTANTLY, … made the E-Type a car that required a lot of fussing.
This example will start the new owner at ground level in the embracing that high fuss maxim.
As a welder and fabricator, I can see resurrecting this heap from the salt pit it must have occupied, but it will require other parts cars/body donors/parts sources to even get a person with the right tools and skills to a decent starting point. I bought my 63 in 1977 for the handsome sum of $500, and quickly discovered that insurance companies hold a dim view on the risks such a car represents in the hands of a 16-year-old. Today, finding ANY E-Type donor cars is going to cost cubic dollars. The days of $500 drivers are gone. Could it be done ? I have build bodies back from barely shells. Is it worth it ? I have no idea. Is an early E-Type about the prettiest, slippery whick of a car to ever fly down the open road. Damn straight, it is.
Methinks the seller is about 4x actual value on the asking, but that may reflect a certain disconnectedness I might have for current E-Type values.
Good luck gettin’ that started without sparkplug wires……
No self respecting barn would accept this pile of Caca
It’s a lightweight alright! Is the owner vapping?
Ha ha! What a POS.
Hold on……..Let me take a hit off of my pipe……..Uhmmm I’ll take it!?
So was this car owned by Elizabeth Taylor, Elvis or Steven King or somebody famous at sometime in it’s life? Cause the best plan would be to strip off anything semi useful and chunk the rest. There is not even enough to donate to a community college for students to learn body work on. There is not even enough to cut out to weld into another Jag that might need a lil sheet metal. This had to be listed as a dare or the seller lost a bet with someone or actually has bet with someone that someone will make a side offer on it after no bids are received. That has gotta be it.
Lightweight indeed!!! Most of it is gone!!! I’d be afraid to put it on a flatbed or trailer it might rip in half!!! Have another drink my friend!!!!!
Your getting in this auction the VIN plate, the title, and the phone number for Martin Robey. Current complete OTS Series 1 body shell is $56,000 and change (plus shipping, etc). Making the LARGE assumption that the suspension bits are salvageable (which I would think the rear cage is shot like the rest of the car), figure $10k for all that. $10k for the interior, $10k for the engine rebuild (you might get the tranny done under that same bid), $10k easy for misc “stuff” plus wheels and tires at another $4,000.
Your in this for $100,000. Plus his $21,500. Current market for an S1 3.8 OTS is $150,000+-. You might break even, but best case a profit margin of $20-30k is weak in todays resto world.
While I would never quibble at the idea of chosing a GOOD car as the one to pour money in to, meaning NOT the one that would still be worth $1000, even after you spent $100K on a restoration, I have never been able to look at old cars as profit margins. Either I like them, or I don’t. Money is just that expendable entity I throw at things I enjoy. If I were to track my fun/hobbies by the money I dump into them, or how much I might get back out of them, all the pleasure would evaporate. I would restore an early E-Type because I love the car and want to drive the wheels off it, not to make money on the sale. I have a job for making money. Cars are my “happy place”. The two are kept separate for a reason. That’s just me …
gotta agree Burger – I’m restoring my 69 2+2 over the next few years that was burned in a house fire. I may spend $40k on its rebuild. It will only be worth it to me.
Well said Burger!! I don’t think I could have express it any better myself!!
JagmanBill has left out the most important and unseen part of the restoration costs – the labor. I agree that his estimate, rounded off, of $100,000 for the parts bill is correct, but the time to rebuild a car this bad will be between 2,000 and 3,000 hours. I cannot see this car coming out of the shop with a bill of less than $250,000 if done properly – and that excludes the purchase cost. There is sadly no economic sense in restoring this car but – and a big but – I have seen recently a flat floor (where the floor exists frankly) where the owner turned down an offer from my client of $100,000. This car is far far better than the above, but just the same, finished to the standard this client expects it would have been a $300,000 car. Also, so many parts prices have doubled if not trebled over this last boom period. Proper A-frames I bought at £2,000 in the UK five years ago, now well over £4,000 for example. But, and we’ve all seen it, some people don’t care about the money, they want to put their own stamp on a car and the proof of this is to be seen in the “barn finds”. We must also figure in the state of the market. I have had a very early car for well over thirty years and restored it twice due to high mileage. It was worth about $250,000 last year and has lost $100,000 since. The market has turned, just like it did in 1992. My car was $25,000 in 1989, $75,000 in 1990, and $25,000 again a year later. This car is economic suicide, but someone will probably buy it.
If that pile of rust is worth in excess of $21,500, then my late S1 4.2 – 2-seater Coupe must be worth well over a $100k, especially given that she has only 30k miles and in excellent original condition. This guy should maybe take off his rose coloured sunglasses since they are obviously really tinted to being almost opaque!
The comments continuously beating on the money drum affirm my waning interest in a hobby (for me) that is just a financial equation for so many. This car is in this condition because a previous owner did not see the financial impetus to take care of it, and most certainly didn’t do it because he loved the car. Had he loved the car, he would have taken care of it, no matter the cost. Now people are carrying on the same mindset as the guy who trashed it, still looking at it as a monetary equation and saying it isn’t worth it. Ironically, those saying so can’t see the parallel.
The money drum as you call it, determines whether something is worth restoring. Since most people aren’t made of money, this is an important factor to consider. What I have learned is to find a car that has been treasured by the previous owner, and therefore looked after and not left out in the elements. I much prefer a really decent original car like my own, over a “cheap” rust bucket, since the reality is that the “cheap car” will likely be the way more expensive option. No more full restorations in my future since I like to actually drive my cars, not flip them!
The other game in play here is somebody who has a totally unrealistic idea that what they have is actually worth something.
pure scrap
The only thing that ran when this was parked was the owner…… running away from the pile of rust as fast as he could!
Burger you have an interesting perspective on cars and values. I’m a tradesman holding both a mechanics and welders certificate. So I’m that guy that does everything myself and I think your dead right on your thinking I have spent 9 years working on a car that when done will do well to sell for $20k. I don’t care I’m doing it for love of the project not even for for love of the car. I do like the car but it’s the challenge that I’m into. My car was not nearly as bad as this but it does have its issues. It needed a fair bit of metal work both rust and minor body damage and I’m sure there are people that think I’m nuts to sink so much time into it, but it is truly rewarding to see it returning slowly back to a viable running car. I’m not there yet but I’m getting close and it will never truly be finished. The other thing I’d like to say is the big restoration numbers being thrown around are not necessarily valid as a good DIY guy can get a lot done while spending very little money. The fellow you mentioned with the great arrow that restored the worst of the two probably didn’t spend large sums of money to do the restoration. Often when it comes to some of these old cars you just have to be a good scrounger. Yes new parts are expensive but when you rely on new only your not getting a restored car your getting a new car. What’s really changed is less and less people are into learning the basics to do there own work and I think there missing out on an experience of working with there own hands. Any one can throw money around for something and usually you don’t value what you have when you do, but build it yourself and it takes on a whole new meaning.
The comments about passion, and being willing to fund a hobby, irrespective of the Costa are all well and good. Everyone to their own. I think the problem with this auction is the greediness of the seller. If HE wished someone to restore a rare car simply for the love of it he would GIVE it to them, knowing that they would still pour in more than it is worth. However, he has ONLY the potential money in mind to be asking such an insane price for such a worthless pile of rust. That’s the distasteful thing about this sale. I really hope no one bids and he takes a step backwards and realizes what his has is practically worthless.
Add a comment about my figures. Those are “retail” costs and and as mentioned, don’t include labor. I also didn’t include the $12-$15k paint job.
That said, if I did this myself I could be all in for less than $50k. Probably alot less. I have access to a really nice shell (former racer) with bonnet for $15k. I could build the engine and gearbox for about $3k (without surprises). I could do the entire suspension for $500. I’d still buy the Barrett interior at $6k.
I absolutely hate doing vert tops so I’d farm that out for $500 install (labor to a guy that works in a Jag shop). I’d also do all the paint/body work so materials would be less than $500 (unless it got shot red). I’m still out the money for the chrome work and/or chrome replacements so figure $5k to be safe. Can’t beat the wheels/tires so I’d still be out $3,000 for those.
So I did it for $34k (if added right – plus the cost of the “car”) cutting what corners I could (parts on hand, horse trade, used parts where not critical or noticed, etc). Given my current schedule, I might get it done in the next 8 to 10 years.
So, screw this piece of crap and for $15k for the shell, $8k to build the engine/gearbox, $500 for paint, $1000 for suspension, $0 for chrome, $1000 for the seat and other “bits” (rollbar is still in it), and $5,000 for wheels/tires, I’m building me a dang race car!
Tim, your point is totally valid, and I totally agree. The seller is going for the Dairyman’s Award here, milking this dead cow for all he can … and I think the guy has stars in his eyes, for sure.
I speak more to a general philosophy about why I do cars, and while I understand many put a lot of importance on a “market value”, I see many flaws to this way of looking at a pleasure hobby, as well as matters of an owed integrity I think we all *should* feel a need to uphold, as it relates to history. Of course, the latter is pie-in-the-sky wishful thinking on my part, but it something I hold myself to. As stated in a previous post, had the scoundrel who allowed this car to become the mess it is felt this obligation to the value of historical preservation, this car would not be the heap it is. Make sense ?
Now, if a person is not into old cars as a pleasure hobby of restoration, then that is a whole different pot of beans, and the argument changes, totally !
This hulk should be priced accordingly to the value of whatever parts are present and useful, … not some pitch that it is still a car, and “only needing … “. That is where the seller is WAY off base.
I’ve been into cars since I was born, growing up in a dealership and falling for Jaguars at the age of 15 when I saw my first E-type. I’ve had two, and still have the one I bought 37 years ago and which is still pounding out the miles. I’ve been through to boom/bust periods, the first in 1989/92 and the second now happening, where the E-type has “lost” $100,000 since last year. I don’t give a damn, because the car wasn’t for sale then and isn’t now. I’ll probably be buried in the damned thing. So I agree with both Jagman and Burger, but we all know of many a person who has ended up paying far more for a car when finished than it is worth. It is part of the game really. I was telephoned last week by someone trying to sell a 150S 3.4 roadster, and he was asking $200,000.a ludicrous figure despite his protestations that it has won several concours. I have been a Jaguar concours judge, and see what goes on at general events where “concours” mean plain bright and shiny, not a correct car. I had to gently tell the man that for any dealer to make a profit it would only be worth half his figure, and even then I doubt a dealer would buy it into stock but only sell it on commission. Never buy on a falling market. But conversely, the magnetic pull of an E-type, especially the early ones (and this has to be before September 1963 because of the alloy dash) seems to remove all judgement from their brain. Someone will buy it; I am convinced of it.
Tony (and other Jag-maestros),
What do people do to overcome the Prince of Darkness with these cars, when they use them as regular drivers ? I did not own my E-Type long enough to have issues, but subsequent exposure to other cars with Lucas electrics got me well acquainted with “the Prince”.
My E-type is very reliable and has definitively let me down but twice in over 30 years, both times the dynamo bronze bush. I always carry certain spares such as a fuel pump, oil pressure sender and in line brake switch all of which are known to be problematic. The quality of spares has greatly improved over the years.
There you have it gang. Ended:Sep 23, 2019 , 4:51PM
Starting bid:US $21,500.00
[ 0 bids ]
Here’s a document that I think we can all agree with, it seems to say it all in a nutshell. Burger, this is right up your alley.
A Treatise on the Importance of Smoke in motor vehicles.
by Joseph Lucas, (Lucas Electrics Ltd).
Positive ground, (earth), depends on proper circuit functioning, which is the
transmission of negative ions by retention of the visible spectral
manifestation known as “smoke”. Smoke is the thing that makes electrical
circuits work. We know this to be true because every time one lets the smoke
out of an electrical circuit, it stops working. This can be verified
repeatedly through empirical testing. For example, if one places a copper
bar across the terminals of a battery, prodigious quantities of smoke are
liberated and the battery shortly ceases to function. In addition, if one
observes smoke escaping from an electrical component such as a Lucas voltage regulator, it will also be observed that the component no longer functions.
The logic is elementary and inescapable!
The function of a wiring harness is to conduct the smoke from one device
to another, similar to a pipe or tube. When the wiring springs a leak and lets all the smoke out of the system, nothing connected to the wires, (tubes), works afterward.
Starter motors were considered unsuitable for British motorcycles for a long
time largely because they consumed large quantities of smoke, requiring very unsightly large wires, ie, (tubes or pipes).
It has been reported that Lucas Electrical components are possibly more
prone to electrical, ie, (smoke), leakage than their Bosch, Japanese or American counterparts. Experts point out that this is because Lucas is British, and all things British leak. British engines leak oil, British shock absorbers,
hydraulic forks and brake systems leak fluid, British tires leak air
and British Intelligence leaks national defense secrets. Therefore, it
follows that British electrical systems must leak smoke. Once again, the
logic is clear and inescapable.
In conclusion, the basic concept of the transmission of electrical energy in the
form of smoke provides a logical explanation of the mysteries of electrical
components – especially British units manufactured by Joseph Lucas Ltd.
‘QUOTE’
“A British gentleman does not motor about after dark.”
Joseph Lucas (1842 – 1903)
My mind is now at ease. Knowing the science behind what one works on greatly enhances one’s ability to troubleshoot problems. This makes perfect sense !
These were and are beautiful cars , but remember at one point it was just another rusting car in New England , and at some point (probably about 1972) the elements and the Jags prone problems led it to be junked, likely in a old time wooded junkyard ; some parts were probably sold early on, but it ended up forgotten and left sitting outside for decades . I’ve seen hundreds of cars like this in junkyards all over New England .Some are so bad you cant find anything salvageable. You cant save them all, and this is one you cant !
There’s no “car” left. This is an engine and a vin plate. I’d remove the vin plate and stop at a scrap yard with the rest.
I don’t think is a restoration candidate. More like a recreation candidate.
Right, Poncho! A boat anchor.
I happen to have a couple of spare bottles of smoke if you need them, New Old stock from 1969.
Is it OEM Jag smoke ? BIG difference ! The aftermarket stuff is not near as good, and it voids the electrical warranty.
I suspect the seller has been blowing a bit of smoke up the collective keester of the old car hobby with this. Maybe has smoke in his eyes ?