Mystery 1969 Baldwin-Motion Camaro
UPDATE 12/3/11 – The auction did not meet reserve at $25,000 with 23 bids.
Original Baldwin-Motion supercars bring big money today. They were basically race cars for the street which were built by Motion Performance and sold through Motion or Baldwin Chevrolet. The seller of this 1969 Baldwin-Motion Camaro is not sure if this car is the real deal, but there is some very convincing evidence to prove that it is. The car is listed for sale here on eBay with bidding at $5,000 reserve not met.
The most obvious clue here is the Motion trademarked paintjob. The exterior is rough, but you can make out the stripe down the side of the car. The front fenders are primered and part of the rear quarters are cut out, but the paint is claimed to be original.
Here is more glaring proof. The Motion valve covers and stripes could be easy to replicate though. We need more evidence to be fully convinced that this isn’t just some beater clone. The 427, four-speed, and welded rear end with a Motion cover help calm our doubts a little. Can anyone else find any other proof that this car is authentic?
MotionPerformance.com claims that the best route to take when determining the providence of a claimed Motion car is to contact Joel Rosen. Joel was the founder of Motion Performance and the only person who can verify the pedigree of one of his cars without an original invoice. There is not a lot of information about these cars available online, so if any of our readers know anything about these cars, we would all appreciate it if you shared.
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Comments
Is that a Ford hood scoop?
It is a “stinger” hood scoop from a 67 BBC Vette, grafted onto a Camaro hood by Baldwin.
If it is the real deal, WOW!
Definitely an Edelbrock torquer or Tarantula intake.
I wish i had the cash to buy it! Id drive as is!
no, thats a 2nd generation corvette intake…
Double pumper and high rise single plane spell quick AND fast. Hood scoop definitely apes the ’64-67 better. Needs a pro restoration, or at least done by someone more skilled than whoever started it. Looks like repop fenders up front.
try Holley 3 barrel. Thats what they ran.
Alex, Explain ! I had a tarantula on my LS6 crate motor. in a 66 SS396. And as far as i know, No other intake put the carb at that angle. And when you say “2nd gen” Corvette. You mean C2 ? or C3 ?
The Edelbrock Scorpion intake also had the carb mounted at an angle. I had on a 427, and still have it in the garage.
The original BBC Edelbrock Torker had the angle mounted carb as well…I had one back in the day on a 454 LS6.
My cousins best friend just got a 68 camaro ss 327 with 30000 miles on it! It was his grandmas car, they own several dealerships in south bend in. Gates chevy is where it came from, with lots of options. His grandma was mrs gates!
All SS Camaros were either 350 or BBC. There was never a Camaro SS 327 ~ not 67 or any other year.
Sorry i ment 67 camaro 68 had a 350
Erik, yes r Gates had a lot of nice cars but its a shame he sold them all off
By the way Kraig, That’s a 67 Vette “Stinger” grafted on the hood.
Baldwin used a hood that was hand laid glass that looked like a 67 vette scoop. A 2nd gen vette is 63 to 67. Motion also used 67 vette sidepipes, as you can see..
If they can only prove that this is a real car by parts only why do people pay so much for one. Did the great Motion not keep vin numbers from their production output.
I did not think the motion cars were SS models, they were COPO cars. the hood is a fiberglass replica of a L88 vette scoop.
An L-88 is a scoop that was first seen in 68. The motion scoop is a vette stinger copy. L-88’s are open in the back to get air that finds it easier to go into the hood than over the windshield. A design also used in camaro cowl induction hoods.
I just realised that is not an L88 hood, it is from the first gen vettes
FYI, The “Stinger” hood scoop was a one year only big block hood on the 67 “C2” Corvette. If you want to say “First Gen” that would be a 53-55. Or stretching it, Including all straight axle 56-62 Corvette’s. But there were no hood scoop’s on them. And ALL Motion cars were production cars, That got engine swaps by Motion performance for Baldwin Chevrolet in NY.
I did some quick research on the Baldwin Motion 69 Camaro. The car came with two different types of hood. The one shown on this car came on the 67, 68, and the 69. The 69 also got the new hood we are all aaccustomed to seeing on the cars. I have seen this hood on 69 B&M Camaros at car shows too. Also ERTL produces, or produced replicas of the Baldwin cars, (Camaros, Chevell’s, Nova’s, and Stinger Corvairs) and this hood appears on some of those cars too. Before you say it ERTL does research before they produce a replica. I have also seen the SS grill in B&M camaros too. Here is one for you. One of the rarest Camaro’s, (try, and find one) are the cars that came out in early 1966. I have seen two of these cars, COPO’s, and on the titles the car is listed as a 1966. One of the cars is in mint condition with only 10 miles on the odometer, and is Gunmetal Grey. The old guy that bought it back in 1966 told me he had worked for the Baldwin Motion dealership, and knew the car would become a very rare car. There were only a handful produced with the 1966 title. The car has been authenticated, as has the title too. He will not let the car be photographed as he does not want the publicity from the Muscle car magazine industry. If you go to the Auto restoration shop the old guy owns, and talk with him for a while, he’ll take you into the basement of the building where he has two Comaros under tarps, and he’ll show them to you. The other Camaro is a 1969 RS Z/28 Camaro with the rare cross ram induction system on the car, unmolested, and also with under 20 miles miles on it. Someone will inherit some sweet cars.
Thank goodness they armor-alled the tires. Otherwise it mightta looked like a turd. But with those shiny tires, its almost show-worthy.
That is awesome!!! One of my all time dream cars, besides a 69 yenko camaro..but this will do!!
I also have three online car shows on my FACEBOOK account with some images of some rare, and customized cars.
michael, I would say a Dana tuned Camaro would be one of the rarest Camaros of all time.
What about the “Dick Harrell” cars ? Dana was a dealer out here in South Gate CA. Harrell was a tuner in Kansas City. But they are both significant and rare.
I think all three are rare, no doubt. . I have read a few books on the Camaro, and have read about the two mentioned here. No where in the lititure did it mention a 1966. That is until I seen the title from the car this older guy had. I have done a image search for a 1966 Camaro, and there is only one image I have found. It is a RS/SS. Ether way though, it would be sweet to have any of these versions of the Camaro.
The JL8 option Camaro is from GM this the 4 wheel disc brakes option . Only like 201 or 206 were produced with this option. Mostly Z28 cars for road racing and such. My buddy had a 69 Z28 with this option very rare car . Yes a nice fast car . This was from GM not some dealership stuffing in a big block and some stickers . They were fast cars but not from GM they are no different if we all got together and started make a super car out of the new whatever . If they do not have VIN numbers to backup what they produced how is the value any better than a clone . They are all nice cars but the value thing is nuts .
I don’t pretend to know anything about these cars, but the engine block looks awful clean and fresh compared with everything else. I’d definitely want some expert backup on this, if I were a potential buyer.BTW, BarnFinds – if I can be a bit pedantic here, it’s “provenance,” not “providence.” OK, pedantry complete…
His Royal Flatulence that is a very good point . The engine looks to clean.
If its been stored inside and under plastic as it looks, why wouldnt it be clean. this, i believe is a real motion car, if not, then someone went to painstaking lengths to make it a very accurate clone..I think its real, but thats just my opinion. Im not a expert nor do i claim to be.
No trim tag. Avoid like the plague.
The hood is an L-88 corvette hood . It was factory on corvettes with the L-88 427 . Also came on all Baldwin Motion Vettes , Camaros , Chevelles , Novas etc.
No, Michael, it is a custom made 69 Camaro hood, fiberglass with ’67 BB Vette hood scoop. The ’68 L-88 scoop was different.
From reading all the comments about the value of this thing, and whether or not it is real. The not having any numbers from Motion answers that Question. This is just another Camaro some one found in a wrecking yard, even if it is a motion body,,, what is it worth??. The primer on the front shows it has been bent up, and I wonder how bent the frame might be?? The engine could be any early big block with “Motion” valve covers on it, and the intake was a popular item, but not just for “Motion”. The hood is reproduced by many. Look in JC Whitney. Its just a wrecked car with some choice parts on it that can be bought at a swap meet anywhere. The only folks I see making any money on this thing is the guy selling it now. I would rather buy a nice 427 Camaro, and put the stripe and valve covers on it. if there are no ###’s you wouldn’t even have to call it a clone. JMO
What’s a Motion body worth? Today probably over $100k in this condition here. I only say that as before I left Bridgeport CT for Boise ID, a close friend tried selling me his ’67 Chevelle SS for $900 in ’99. I already had a ’70 Vette conv, 350/350 4sp zero option car. Knowing I was leaving CT later in the year I knew I wasnt bringing the Vette, so this Chevelle project is another anchor. Fastforward to 2003. Another friend calls & says guess what? Says I bought Eddy Masons ’67 Chevelle. I said for what, $900? He said yes. Now the car was complete. The orig blue paint was barely noticable. I thought it odd seeing 427 crossflag emblem on front fender as thought 396 was largest. In all my muscle car owning years from 76-86, just never saw that in a 66-69 Chevelle. Interior complete again, needing full restore. I saw this car over cpl decades up against his 2 family house attached to the property of their towing & body shop w/ 7 bays. This car was among 6-7 others parked in the same spot decades. I wasnt a fan of this style, preferring my brothers ’66 GTO style. Anyways he buys the car. Says ‘Guess what’ again. What. I told him to get me the title. Dude. It says Baldwin Motion Performance on it. My F’ing heart sunk in my chest! Since ’75 I’ve wanted a Motion car. In ’76, I consulted with Joel Rosen about converting my ’75 Formula into a Phase III. He said they do strictly Chevy but this would be a 1st for $5k. It would be replacing the 350 with a 455. I was short almost $2k for the longest time that year & eventually passed. Anyways my friend calls back & says Check out my ebay name. I look it up. He sold this SS for $75k as-is. Needing a full blown restore in ’03. He called me a couple months ago. Said he was in touch with the guy that bought the car from the guy that bought it from him. Apparently now, its owner is Joe Gibbs. It has been meticulously restored by far no wheres near what I could have done by a long shot. He said the car is the ONLY ’67 Motion SS Joel had built. They believe it could be worth more than a million now. So yeah anything with a Motion title and needing a full blown restore, is worth jumping on. Had this Camaro been on today’s listings for $5k, I’d have jumped on this one. Turns out not orig Motion, can still get $5k back. If real & only way to know if no title in hand, is give Joel the vin#. He will tell you if it is or not. The total amount of each make & model made, is his personal secret!
Foxxy,I couldn’t agree more. Many years ago i bought the car you described.Mine was a 69 Yenko Camaro RS replica . Awesome 20 footer. In actuality, A bunch of neat looking (broken) high performance parts. Aluminum heads on a 427 with 7.4 cast in the block. Neat stuff like that. I got it from a dealer in Alsip IL. Buyer Beware !
Fox, COPO was a special order from the factory. “Central office production order” and Baldwin & Yenko were Chevy dealerships. Motion Performance worked with Baldwin Chevrolet to make these Motion Chevy’s. Don Yenko made the the Yenko’s.
So Ed says, what are you saying that I don’t know what copo means. or is that all you could come up with to comment. I believe everyone on here knows what it means or there would be no discussion.
Foxy says:
November 27, 2011 at 8:01 am
I did not think the motion cars were SS models, they were COPO cars. the hood is a fiberglass replica of a L88 vette scoop.
Why such a smart ass reply? Yenko used COPO cars not Baldwin. Baldwin did use Super Sports. Baldwin-Motion never re-badged a single factory COPO 427 Camaro or Chevelle
And both companies used the L-88 hood scoop.
I feel confident this is NOT a real Baldwin car. too many irregularities with it. the paint scheme does not match a baldwin, the wing is wrong, no legit numbers to speak of. makes it more likely someone put the engine and pipes on possibly off a wrecked motion car but i dont believe this to be a real one. some confirmation or information from the owners/seller would be much appreciated.
does anyone know on the bbc 427 motors if Baldwin motion ported the heads to acquire the hp claimed or were they stock unported heads I assume at least the hy po versions were fully ported 600 hp with a tunnel ram thanks for your answers Dennis
if YOU REALLY WANT TO KNOW IF THE CAR IS A REAL Baldwin Motion I would get in touch with Joel Rosen the man that started it all I should know as I was the SERVICE MANAGER till the dealership closed in 1974 after it was sold to a NEW YORK dealer and then called LYON CHEVEROLET
Look guys and gals. It is what it is and it’s not what it’s not. There is only two people that can actually put a price on this car. The guy selling it and the guy that buys it. I am a huge fan of Balwin/Motion camaros and by the looks of all the pieces of this puzzle it may be. 25k may be to much for may be is or a maybe not. I would start at 15k and take a chance for the price 69 camaro’ s are going for these days you caint lose. Just my thoughts.
I am the x service manager of Baldwin Chevrolet until they closed in 1974 I would cotact Joel before you bid on this car
Hey Sam Marcia,
I have a 70 camaro now with a 454 in her. I love the hood that came on Balwin cars but I keep seeing different sizes in scoops. I believe the ones on Balwins were larger then normal. Any chance you know the true size and also were I might find an orginal?
I have seen 69 Baldwin-Motion Camaros with 3 different hood treatments ~ the 67 BB Vette Stinger scoop seen on this one, the 68 L-88 scoop, and the ZL2 cowl induction hood which was an available factory option. I’m not sure all 3 would be correct, but I have seen them. We all know people customized their cars in that era pretty much the same as guys today hang sewer pipe size tailpipes on anemic 4 bangers & mess up the suspension so they can drive on the sidewalls of their tires. The difference is that those mods made sense.
I own this car. It has correct 427 950 3 barrel Holley motion trackson bars mounts on rear end weld every thing motion done on phase 3 cars. It came from an estate see in Connecticut. Trunk and spoiler is not original to car. It sat so long engine is stuck. Selling one of my house and will get to the bottom of this. I will contact The great Mr Joe and see if its real. Thanks.
Does anyone know what rear shocks and lead springs a 1969 Baldwin camaro with a phase 3 package used ?