Hot Rod Single Engine: 1965 Piper 400 Comanche
The first thing you see when Googling for info about the Piper 400 Comanche is that it’s a muscle car with wings. That’s high praise and shapes up with how the seller describes this muscular project plane. The Piper 400 features a naturally-aspirated eight-cylinder Lycoming O-540 that pushed out an incredible 400 horsepower without turbocharging. This gave the plane an impressive cruising speed not to mention climb rate. This example has seen better days after suffering a prop strike when the long-term pilot owner landed without any gear down. Find it here on eBay where bidding has reached $38,300 with the reserve unmet.
On a site like this, it’s pretty clear we all love things that go fast. While we often associate that sensation with four-wheeled machines on the ground, it certainly carries over to land and sea where the machinery that is typically reserved for the ultra-rich can yield the same sensations of power and speed. Of course, the reason many of us choose cars over those other things is because a fast car isn’t off-limits to the majority of us like a powerful private plane is. So a project-grade version of a fast aircraft that hasn’t been baking on a tarmac for 30 years could represent a rare opportunity to get into one of these enthusiast-grade plans for far less money than it’d normally cost.
The listing reports that this Piper was owned for many years by a traveling physician who used the plane to fly all over the southwest to his appointments. Apparently, while spotting cattle alongside the runway during an approach, the plane landed without the gear down. There was no damage to the gear itself but the propellor is damaged on all three blades. The seller goes on to tell us that parts-soucing isn’t as bad as it once was, and he’s probably right. But this will still be a major project to correct given the legalities and regulatory concerns of repairing a damaged aircraft. If you watch any one of the numerous airplane revival shows that are hugely popular on YouTube right now, you’ll notice that gaining compliance with the FDA is no small feat, especially on a plane with issues.
As the photo above shows, the upholstery has been redone previously and is in excellent shape. The seller reports that the dash equipment is well-maintained but doesn’t have much in the way of high-end gadgetry. The dash and controls do look to be in good, clean shape, and it’s clear this plane hasn’t been torn apart recently. The listing reports that the belly skins and cowl flaps will need to be replaced and that one of the nose gear doors has a small curl “….at the tip.” Both wings and the gear are in good shape and while this is a major project, someone has to return the muscle car of the skies back into action!
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Comments
Newsflash!! We, on Social Security, are getting a whopping 8.7% increase in our monthly payments.( $114 bucks, for me, hey, I’ll take it, unfortunately, my rent surprisingly went up about 8% as well) Biggest increase in years. It puts me over the top, and can finally afford this,,mmm-hmmm, ( cloud dream pops),,sure looks like a nice one, regardless, even though I’d prefer a top wing, why the 2 steering wheels? I got news for ya, if the pilot passes out, I’m bailing out. With driving, on the ground, becoming more dangerous by the day, the old saying for flying is true. You have a better chance of getting hurt or killed ON THE WAY to the airport, than the actual flying. Fear of flying is unwarranted, at best, with 9700 airplanes in the sky at any given time, it’s truly safe. It’s the airports I can’t handle.
Last small plane I rode in was very similar to this. My biggest gripe, was the view. Couldn’t see over the dash, and the bottom wing restricted view below, which I didn’t care for. In the rare event of “going down”, survival in a small plane is much better than a big aircraft. Any cornfield will do, most times with minimal damage, as evidenced. Still, it would be off to Walmart for new underwear.
I’d much rather sped low six figures on this extremely capable airplane, than high 6 figures on a Hemi Cuda. Just sayin’. In its day this was a remarkable airplane and has definitely stood the test of time. If it weren’t so good (and rare) this one would already be headed to a scrap bin.
Here is a nice write up about this Hot Rod with wings… it.https://www.planeandpilotmag.com/aircraft/brands/piper/piper-commanche-400/
Sounds just like a Hemi Cuda and a Hemi Cuda will bring triple that this will bring
Theres a lot more than buying the airplane… I actually owned over 1000 airplanes in over 25 years as a used airplane dealer.. so I ought to know…. Buying the airplane.. is about the cheapest thing in owning one.. First of all.. the way insurance is these days.. you are going to have to have a lot of flying time and ratings.. just to be able to get insurance on this plane..which I am sure will run at least 4 grand a year.. Then.. theres the hanger rent.. which can go as high as 750 a month.. depending on where you are.. then there are the annuals.. oh.. the annuals.. on this plane.. better figure 10,000 to 15,000 a year just to keep it in license.. plus all the other expensive parts that you are going to have to replace during that year..this plane is weak on avionics.. figure a minimum of 25 grand for an update…a nice STEC autopilot will set you back another 20 grand or so.. you cant touch a nice strip and paint for under 12 grand anymore.. then.. theres the engine..50 grand or more.. Frankly.. you would be much better off with the Hemi Cuda..
Is that orange wing in the pic a Luscombe?
Could be the silvaire. Or a Cessna. Not enough picture to be sure
Ran when crashed, a fender bender in a car is one thing, but this? Just a guess, would there be engine damage from the prop stopping it so fast? Bent crank? Not for me but best of luck to the next pilot.
Hey Mike, HA! Ran when crashed,,I agree, not unlike hitting that pipe in the ground with the lawnmower, they aren’t made to do that. I suppose even the most experienced can have a bad day. I’d have to think it was a mechanical problem, as not putting the landing gear down, would be like not cranking the dolly legs up on a semi trailer, it’s pretty important. Have a safe holiday, pal, I hear some pretty cold weather a comin’. I bet the Willys will be the only thing that starts! :)
Merry Christmas to you Howard! I forgot about the mower and pipe. I agree on your high wing comment, my buddy has one and it is so cool to see what’s going on below you. And yes, that old Willy will start when it is to cold to be out and about. Gotta wait one more day for the Pack. Have a great Holiday!
Hitting an object with the prop automatically calls for an engine major. The prop itself is going to be a major obstacle as it could set you back $20K (typical Constant-Speed) by itself.
I understand the 0-540 is a carb engine…can you fly upside down with a carb motor?
Yes, but only if you maintain positive Gs. So a barrel roll or Immelmann is fine. But no “Maverick” photo of the Ruskies, I’m afraid
Yes but not with gravity fed tanks.
Great commentary as always, Howard. If you go to the FAA website and enter the N number, if gives you a little information. Says its a ’64?? Seller seems very upfront about the damage, and the paperwork seems up to date. As usual, the bids are suspicious, possibly some bidders are fishing for the reserve. No Idea what that would be. Still a damaged airplane. Good luck and sunny skies.
Cheers
GPC
This is a parts plane, now. The correct engine for the 400hp is the lycoming IO-720. Injected flat eight. As the result of the prop strike a complete engine tear down is mandated. That cost alone is well in excess of $40,000USD. The outdated Nav/Com system would also have to be replaced. Cost? $25000+!
Its not FDA…its F.A.A.
The pilot made hamburger of his plane
First, a correction. Piper Comanche engine is an IO-720. That’s fuel injected 720 cubic inch monster.
Now. Prop strike. Figure on a full overhaul. You might get very lucky but in my personal opinion, not likely. Ask me how I know. A renter put a prop strike on a Cherokee 140 that I owned. $20k. In 2004.
Average cost for new IO-720, $135,000. Average cost for overhaul, $65,000.
However, as long as money is no object, well worth it.
That stinks —- but how did they manage to strike the prop on a fixed gear airplane? Must have been quite a porpoise…
It’s a retractable landing gear aircraft
Pipers 👍😎
These are really nice planes to fly, probably the best I ever had a chance to put time into. Roomy and fast. They do over 200 MPH and you can bring along your family. It is a pretty heavy aircraft with a higher wing loading so the ride is quite smooth. The IO720 is a monster and makes a beautiful sound. I can still feel the bark and shudder as it started. Think about it, 400 hp back in 1965. Not many cars had that kind of power and this one is air cooled! You needed to be very careful about CHT. Figure on 20+ gallons per hour for fuel.
Here is the bad news.
A standard rebuild is $$$$+ and throw in the crank and prop, and the bill is frightening. It might exceed the value of the aircraft
When I was getting my A/P I was tasked with rebuilding a Beech Bonanza that landed gear up (it happens). It is a BIG job. When you put lightweight aluminum parts down on asphalt at 80 MPH a lot of internal parts get bent. What you see from the outside is just the start. It is never just a few skins and flaps. Another frightening bill.
Since this is an IFR aircraft, it works in controlled airspace and will need the radios upgraded. Another frightening bill.
I am actually surprised to see $38,000.00 bids. A current flying one is about $125,000.00 and I’m not at all sure you could get this and make it fly again for that. But it would have a fresh rebuild, good radios and new paint so it may represent a good value? I don’t know.
Long nose and low wings doesn’t really matter when you fly up high where this one normally cruises. It all pretty much looks the same.
It has been may years since I had the chance to fly one of these. Flying was much different back then, it somehow seemed more routine and easier. I never thought much of flying from Reno to LA. Flight planning, filler up and I’d just go. No GPS, just good pilotage. A plane like this was amazing in a sky of pedestrian Cessnas.
Too much money for an aircraft the FAA classified as substantially damaged. Outdated avionics, and staring at a variable pitch propeller, engine overhaul, paint work, and more make this one to avoid unless one has more money than brains.
If not repaired properly, it is not insurable and may be not legal to fly. If he wasn’t insured for the damages, then he is in a rough spot. If he was paid by insurance for the damage, he should repair it and sell it as a functioning aircraft rather than going for the greed.
Great comments really puts owning this airplane in perspective, My first impression was,I need this airplane. In my twenties I got my commercial pilots licence, and never got a job. My reasoning was I had lots of time in low wing airplanes similar to this one. This would be perfect for me. As soon as I read all the comments ,I came back to reality very fast. Thanks to B/F contributors, who reminded me “Snap out of it” you idiot.
Any aircraft must pass a FAA inspection before it can legally be flown. Any aircraft that has suffered any damage needs a new airworthiness certificate. NTSB should have a report on this which should be looked at before purchasing it.
It does not “need ” a new airworthiness certificate. The original certificate always stays with the aircraft. It can be surrendered when the aircraft is scrapped or destroyed
I worked for TI over 40 years ago, and I was working in one of the sites in Plano. A guy who worked about 4 stations down from me used to go fly during his lunch hour (ok, maybe 2 hours). He invited me along several times as the airfield was just about 15 minutes away. All the planes belonged to people at TI and anyone with a TI ID and pilot training could rent it for practice after completing all the other instruction. I remember flying in one of these several times and he also practiced landing by touching down briefly and then back up to fly over the countryside. I never had the time or money to get my pilot’s license, but he did allow me to take the controls for short periods ot time, and it was a blast.
Good airplane in the sense that it could support a decent load. Old avionics and radios, with that engine i would think your gph rate is going to limit flight time? The ugly thing about gear up landings is the normal givens are engine tear down, prop replacement, prop hub rebuild, all the belly skins and there is going to be some wing damage. All expected! Now what about all the stuff you will discover during tear down? The repair cost is going to make this a tough one to come out on!
Yea, not a good buy. Whenever you have to look inside after skin damage occurs, there’s always rib and structure damage. Someone could certainly use this for parts but I’m very surprised it’s at 38K.
My father was a fighter pilot in WWII, dad flew P-47’s in Europe. He continued in aviation after the war as a hobby and part time business. I grew up at airports! Had my private ticket before my drivers license. I soloed in dad’s Cherokee 180, we then moved up to a Cessna 182 and then a 210. As others have said, this is (was) a great aircraft, however, it now is the proverbial money pit. I would be surprised if there isn’t also airframe damage. Buyers should be cautious…
I was an aircraft dealer for over 25 years… you talk about an expensive can of worms… THIS IS IT…. To Rebuild that Engine..over 50,000 dollars.. I flat guarantee it… The Prop… another 8 to 10 grand… belly skins and flaps.. OUTRAGEOUS… NOW… it has old Avionics…. you will put another 25 grand at LEAST..at a minimum in Avionics…An autopilot… will run you another 20 Grand..MINIMUM… There is NO END TO IT… and Fuel.. is now at least 5 dollars a gallon… and this Hog will burn 20 gallon an hour… Exactly why I got out of the business and retired…A Normal Person.. just cant afford to own a plane anymore…
Is this also on Hanger Finds?
just like always, the hot rods are too damn expensive….lol
I said “Gear up!”, not “Cheer up!”
The comments here have a BS index of about .94. The Commanche 400 is a highly sought-after icon with a solid fan base. I expect that the owner’s insurance would cover most of the airworthiness repairs. The avionics upgrades are at the whim of the new owner. This thing is a beast. But, rare in a GA aircraft: Fill the seats and fill the tanks and go! I have brought several derelicts back from the dead; this beauty is calling to me. . .
Jagandy
I’d prefer a high wing Cessna but this is a nice option. I wonder what the reserve is?
This aircraft is being sold by an aircraft salvage company. The previous owner took the money and ran……….that’s if he had insurance on it
I have more interest in that C-47 in one picture.
I don’t see any goonnie birds.