Franco Survivor: 1988 Peugeot 505 GLX
We hear tell that comedian Jerry Lewis was loved in France. What’s not to love about a cool French sedan on American shores? This 1988 Peugeot, up for grabs on here on craigslist at $3,500 obo in the San Francisco Bay Area looks like a well-loved car.
“Pugs” as they are nicknamed, when well maintained are known for their reliability and long service lives. It is not uncommon to see them still on the road these days. This one, the GSX model, has the V6 gasoline engine with a 3 speed automatic transmission and seems in pretty nice condition, with only 97,000 miles on the clock and recent servicing with tune up, fluids change, a new battery, and replacement steering rack. The car comes with a clean CARFAX and a thick folder of invoices showing regular maintenance going back 15 years or so.
These mid-size cars are known for their outstanding handling, ride quality, and comfortable interiors. True to the French way of thinking, these interesting cars have their quirks, each unique and actually well conceived. Case in point, engineers recognized that shorter drivers would need the seats closer and higher up, than those drivers with longer legs, so when the drivers seat is moved forward closer to the dashboard, the seat also rises slightly to give the shorter driver a better view over the steering wheel. In America these were popular and developed a following, but price point and competition from domestic brands eventually forced Peugeot to stop selling cars in the US.
The previous owner repainted the car (and changed the color). Finish shows well with only minor dings and scratches and a small area of paint peeling on the drivers side front windshield pillar. There is no visible rust and only minor curb rash on two of the aluminum 15” wheel rims. Cloth interior is in good shape with no tears or stains to seats, carpet or headliner. The owner reports the passenger side mirror glass is missing and front brake pads and rotors will need replacement soon. Seems fairly priced and ready for it’s next road trip.
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Comments
I’ve quietly wanted a 505 since they were still being sold new in the US, but this isn’t the one for me. Give me one of the turbos (especially the wagon!) or a diesel, but a vanilla sedan 505 with a slushbox seems like a lot of potential work for not a lot of joy.
Sad as it might be, this ought to be a parts donor for a more interesting model or a candidate for a (!) 505 restomod, where a more exciting and modern drivetrain gets swapped in.
While the turbos are great cars, the engines are fragile, somewhat susceptible to cracked heads and broken piston ring-lands if ever overboosted (failed wastegate actuator, torn hose, etc).
The V6, on the other hand, has about the same power and is more robust. A 5-speed V6 is the car to have, not a turbo. While I prefer manuals, the four-speed auto in these cars actually matches the luxury character of the car and isn’t a let-down, as automatics sometimes can be.
I would love to swap in a Honda K24 engine to my 505 turbo, as the head seems to have let go, but my understanding is that engine swaps are not as easy as in other cars, due to the use of a torque tube in the driveline.
Also, just a couple thoughts on what really caused Peugeot to close up shop in the US. The full list is so multi-faceted that it’d take an entire post to explain.
Short List:
– Poor Dealer Network (in terms of quality, level of focus, quantity, and geographic location)
– Price. Not only did French labor costs make their cars cost more to make than competing models, but when Peugeot pulled out of the US, the US dollar was in free fall against European currencies, including the Franc.
– Model Lineup. PSA, having relatively limited resources, had decided to focus their product development on mid-level and economy cars in the 1980s, which included bringing the former Simca/Talbot team acquired from Chrysler into the fold. With this going on, the 505 was left to soldier on as a 10-year old design. While PSA could have imported the 205 and 309, neither met US standards and while they could have been brought into compliance, they’d have been uncompetitive in their segments, both in features and price.
– The 405. PSA pinned their hopes for success in the US on the 405, which, when launched, won multiple awards, including MT’s Import Car of the Year. Unfortunately, early examples were plagued with both design and manufacturing defects.
– Image. Like Renault, Peugeot suffered from an identity crisis in America. BMW and MB had positioned themselves as paragons of German engineering. Volvo and Saab had chosen to focus on safety and Nordic design cues. French marques didn’t have a clear and communicable selling point besides being “weird” and “weird” doesn’t sell cars, especially when it’s combined with “historically unreliable”.
My ex – girlfriend’s dad had a 505 GTi, which was a lovely thing; all thin pillars, handling and briskness. The back end of this one’s totally different from the ones that we had (Scotland); how could you make it so ugly?
Bumper regulations have that effect. Compare any year, any Escort, Euro offering and U.S. model, and you’ll feel sorry for us all over again. And we never got the feisty Escort cabrio.
In a diesel version, these automobiles once populated the streets of New York City as taxi cabs.
If I lived in the US I’d be on this like a shot – even with the ugly US lights and bumpers – change them for Euro items (please!) Once common on UK roads, they’re now rare.
What does ‘ Franco survivor ‘ mean ? .
I’ve never had a nicer journey in a back seat than Paris to Nice to Florence and back in a 505 turbodiesel. My first trip there with my wife’s mom and dad, and of course Papa had to drive … but that spacious and perfectly-shaped back seat was no penalty box. And that TD had long, strong legs too.
My Peugeots have both been 404s, four-cylinder with four-on-the-tree, lovely and swift once you got going, and a 505 might be nice too. Just have heard no truly complimentary things about that Douvrin V6, though. If I were still one car shy of my quota I might be tempted to consider a trip north …
Had a lovely road trip from Oklahoma City to Chicago to attend a sales seminar in one these in ’88 or ’89. Knowing nothing about Peugeots, I was pleasantly surprised of the ride and comfort of it. Being 6 foot tall and stuck in the back seat for the duration of the trip, I was very comfortable. Thought it was a great car!
Well here’s another one of my crazy stories but true so I thought I would relate it. I’m a retired NYPD Detective who worked in the Auto Crime Division. We used a lot of undercover vehicles most of which were conversion cars which meant that they were confiscated vehicles (usually from drug dealers) from the public that were converted to Police use. One of them was a Peugeot 604. Needless to say we “never spared the horses” on any of our vehicles. So I can honestly say they took a lot of abuse! This Peugeot was a very nice car but took a little getting used to because some of the controls were opposite what you would expect. Anyway it was a good handling fast car. One particular memory I have of that car was late at night when I got a call to back up a team that had followed a tractor trailer full of stolen car parts to a port in Delaware. It was going to be loaded onto a barge heading out of the country. I drove that car down the New Jersey Turnpike at speeds well over a hundred miles per hour for the whole distance which was over 100 miles. It really performed great. We eventually lost that car because the shop mechanics had a hard time getting parts to maintain it. While we had it it was one of the preferred cars because of it’s performance and also because nobody ever made us in it.
Always liked French cars and their quirks. Never owned one, but always wanted one.
These cars dominated their class in SCCA showroom stock, it was great seeing them beating smaller sportier cars. Youtube has some videos of the National Runoffs at Road Atlanta for your viewing pleasure