DeToBarnso: 1972 Pantera Project
The DeTomaso/Ford/Lincoln-Mercury Pantera has always had a split personality to me. Featuring a small-block Ford V8 for power but with Italian knock your socks off styling (and corresponding quality issues), I’ve never had the opportunity to do more than sit in one (which was seriously cool!) This one is advertised as a zero-rust (is that possible with a Pantera?) project here on kijiji. It’s located in New Hamburg, Ontario, Canada and is priced at $C 60,000 or best offer. Thanks to reader Mackenzie S. for this cool find!
The car certainly looks solid enough in the pictures, and if I’m not mistaken those front tires may be the original ones. The missing components worry me a little but the seller assures us “I have all the parts for this car.”
I like the earlier, cleaner body lines that don’t have all the huge fender flares, big bumpers, wings and other additions when it appeared De Tomaso tried to make it look like a Lamborghini Countach with the later models.
We’re also told that the car only has 29,000 original kilometers, which is only just over 18,000 miles for those of you that don’t speak metric. If that’s the case, those really might be the original tires on the front.
Here are some of the parts included. I can’t tell from the parts and the pictures whether this is a Pantera L, which became the nomenclature after Ford demanded some quality improvements during 1972. There were over 7,200 Panteras of all types produced, with around 5,500 coming during the “Ford years” of 1971-75 and the rest trickling out until 1992. As long as that ZF transaxle is in decent shape, many of the mechanical components are available and if the owner really has saved all the parts, you might get really lucky with interior components. This might well be a worthwhile project, however, I think the price may be a bit high as there’s a running and driving car in Nebraska here on eBay for a buy it now of $67,000. Perhaps somewhere in the forties would be more reasonable? What do you think?
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Comments
I like these cars but I hear they can be expensive to restore, is that true ???
I believe the 351c is considered a big block ford.
Over priced. I bought one 2 months ago for 6k looks like this. Mine was a good deal but this one is at the opposite end the spectrum.
Nick, as far as I know both 351’s that FoMoCo produced are small blocks — but, feel free to argue and weigh in!
Actually a 351-Cleveland is a Big Block derived from a Different Design. A 351W or Windsor is a Canadian produced Small-Block Derived from the Ford 302 Block. They are totally Different Motors they just Share the same displacement that’s all.
Not even with my enemy’s Monopoly Money
Pants-terror …on this one lol
I paid 6k fornone similar a coiple months ago. That was a good deal. The ask on this the opposite.
Been there and done that, I’ ve done that with a 71 30 some years ago , great car good luck with the price/costs too do! I still have mine and Love it! It’s not going anywhere but fast! If your price is right, maybe! I love a challenge.
I remember riding my candy apple red Schwinn Stingray by the Lincoln Mercury dealer back in 72′ and spotted a new yellow Pantera parked right in front outside of the floor to ceiling glass panels. Wow, I asked the salesman what the heck is that ? DeTomaso Pantera was his reply. A WHAT ? He informed me it was Italian with a Ford 351 Cleveland engine. Price ? just over $11,000 dollars to buy a Ford / Lincoln Mercury. Most vehicles were in the $3500 to $4500 range back then. In 72′ it seemed cheaper than a Ferrari. 46 years later I think the Ferrari might have the edge in resale value. Repairs not so much.
Mine was green, the Stingray that is & maybe a couple years earlier than yours & Lincoln Way Motors in Massillon, Ohio had a white Pantera out front. Dear Lord to be able to travel back in time to those precious moments !
Jamie ,
60,000 Cdn is 46,000 US , so already is in your reasonable range.
Point taken, WT! I’d still rather spend a little more and get something that I was more confident was complete!
Famous last words, “I have all the parts for this car”. With one picture showing two pallets of parts sitting on a dirt floor with nothing bagged or tagged. For his asking price he should have made a full accounting of what parts he has and their condition.
Steve R
And rust IS an issue with these and most older Italian exotics and sport cars. Someone will make an offer and restore/update this one.
This is diamond in the ruff, if you could get this for $35k, a new windshield is on ebay for $1500. By the time you spend another $15 k on paint body..Do it up right you have a cool ride thats worth easy $80k. A few years from now these will be selling in $ 150,000- $200,000 not many of these out there with less than 20,000 miles.
These, one day will be $150,000+ cars, especially low mileage cream puffs. This seller may say it has 29,000 kilometers, but the pictures don’t. When a he makes such a claim, which is meant to support the high asking price, it’s up to him to provide documentation to back it up. If not, that rightfully brings into question everything else stated in the ad. Unfortunately, the days of taking the word of an unknown seller at face value are over.
And yes, a 351C is a small block. A 351/400M (Modified) is considered a big block.
Back in my college days there was one of these on the “For Sale” board on campus. It was $800 or maybe $1800..either way, out of a poor college student’s budget. AND it had a blown engine…The ad right next to it had a running, rusty Mercury Montego wagon for $50..Even then I said “Hey..wait a minute..” and was wishing a bag of cash would drop in my hands. That wagon was apt to have the same block in it. Heck..college student driving one of these? A 302 not a 351? who cares??
No where ever does ford mention the 351M stands for modified, lots of people say that to make it sound like they have a high performance engine from ford, just the opposite, it was developed to meet smog laws in the 70’s, if anything it should stand for Michigan were it was first produced but ford has never said what the M stands for but Michigan makes the most sense
351 Cleveland
351 Windsor
351 Michigan?
The 351M series was a 400 block utilizing the 351W crank.
Just a few comments to bring some reality into the discussion. First these cars were often rusty from the factory. Not where you would see it but rust protection did not help sell cars then and what there was was very limited. Second I have driven a couple and they are great fun, sort of a CAN AM Car for the street. BUT and it is a huge but, YOU NEED TO FIT. Because of the size of the front wheels the peddles are offset to the center of the car and for some reason the steering wheel is offset just a half inch to an inch to the outside of the center of the seat. If you are just driving around town you can live with it but if you are going on a long trip across state plan on visiting a chiropractor as soon as you get there. You are going to need one.
That being said there are very few cars ever made that are as beautiful in real life as the Pantara and I agree the first series was the best. Breathtaking elegance with four wheels and enough punch to back up the styling. I have a couple of Lotus (europa & esprit turbo) that I like as much but not better except for the seating position.
And I think the 80K to restore is low. Closer to 100K if done properly and that is the only way it will be worth the top dollar in the future. If I fit I would consider it but I do not. Restore it but do it right and take short trips. LOL
Restomod…bring your wallet. 401k. 2nd mortgage. How’s that 1st born?
Now a GM 350, notched, etc., with a 400 crank makes a 383, which is one of my favorite engines ever – have one in a ‘65 C-10 and she’s a screamer…
I did a 400 SBC with the 350 rods, and Keith Black offset pistons.
A 383 on steroids, cause I had the same rotating assembly but 406 cubes!
It’s my understanding that 400 cubes is the line of demarcation between small block and big block. Although I have seen some say 400 small block and others say 400 big block. I guess it depends on whether you’re a buyer or a seller.
The 351c/ 400m used the same block. I believe the M stood for Mexico. Lots of problems with the 400m , I replaced many crankshafts in these—the thrust main wore thru the block causing mucho end play. not hard to diagnose- tire iron to check for end play, Oil pressure issues with these also.
It was my understanding back in the day the 351M was a 351W block with 400 heads and they were used only in Ford trucks.
The 351W, 351C and 351/400M all use different blocks. Very few parts can be taken off one style and used on a different style. The W and C share the same bellhousing bolt pattern as a 289 and 302. The M uses the same bellhouse bolt pattern as a 429/460. The M engines were used in a lot of trucks but they were also used in many late 1970s Thunderbirds, Cougars, etc.
18,000 miles; Ontario; no rust; needs restoring…. Does not compute! $60k CA? There was one on Vancouver Island a couple of years ago that didn’t need restoring and could even be driven, that sold for $30k. Overpriced.
Agreed.
Sorry to pee in anyone’s Cheerios, but if I have $67,000 to spend, there’s a whole mess of sweet cars at Mecum, etc. but hey….if this is your dream car, then my opinion is worth maybe a cup of coffee! LOL.
Seems to me I started a discussion about the three types of 351’s and the 400 a while back here, don’t even remember what car was posted, but I opened a can of worms completely by accident. This discussion always seems to pop up whenever a 351 is mentioned. Thanks a lot Ford!😞