Epic History! 1918 American LaFrance
How many 101-year old vehicles for sale do you know of that come with their entire history including a picture of it at the factory! That’s the case for this 1918 American LaFrance Type 12/75 fire engine which is listed for sale here on eBay. The desired opening bid is $25,000 and the grand machine is located in Dallas, Texas.
And here’s a picture of the exact same fire engine (look closely and you can see the “C.H.F.D” on the hood that’s still there) as it left the production line in 1918. The seller tells us that:
- It was purchased by the Chicago Heights (Illinois) fire department
- Delivery date was October 24, 1918
- In 1941 it was sold to Village of Phoenix (Illinois) fire department
- In 1946 it was re-engined by BUDA along with some other engines
- They purchased it in 1996 and have used it for tours ever since
- It will cruise at 50 mph (!) without overheating (!!)
The only real restoration (as opposed to maintenance) work that has been done on #2037 is the wheels and tires (for safety reasons) and the seat area. What an epic machine!
You can see the shiny new seat area in this picture. Note the identical appearance to the 1918 photograph!
When it’s not being used for tours, the fire engine is currently on display at the Texas Fire Museum along with over 80 other fire engines — sounds like a cool place to visit! Perhaps a new owner could maintain this relationship or something similar where they are located? Like the seller, I sure hope it doesn’t get converted into a “speedster” – there’s a place and time for those I’m sure, but I believe #2037 deserves to be kept just as she is!
Although there are 12 plugs showing, there are only six cylinders under there. The vehicle was re-engined in 1941 as stated above but is certainly still very period. In researching this post, I found this Facebook entry from the seller who had this engine, a speedster, and another incomplete American LaFrance along with some parts all for sale (the asking price then was $60,000 for all). If you’re intrigued by this epic find, be sure and ask about the others as well!
Auctions Ending Soon
2002 Subaru Impreza WRXBid Now2 days$333
1975 Chevrolet Corvette ConvertibleBid Now2 days$4,000
1964 Ford F-100 Camper CustomBid Now2 days$2,000
2006 Jeep Wrangler SportBid Now4 days$10,500
1974 Datsun 260ZBid Now6 days$460
Comments
Well, I’m not, but some fire dept. will surely step up to the plate here, they are very proud of their roots, and this is about as rootsiest, as you can get, without going a steamer. Cruises at 50? Mmm, I think it will GO 50 with the hammer down, but speed was not what these were known for, and 50 mph, with chains a- singin’, would have been astronomical in the teens, so it must have had some gearing upgrade. 0 bids, but some municipality will snag this, great find.
What municipality has the backing of the tax payers to buy things like this? None. It’ll stay a museum piece or in a private collection..
Hey John, don’t kid yourself, fire depts. get a lot of appropriations, whether the public knows where it goes or not. Museums are failing at an alarming rate, because nobody goes to them anymore. There is a lot of pride with fire fighters today, and rightly so, and I bet even if any fire fighter could give a portion of their salary or their time to help restore this, they would. I can’t think of any entity that is more dedicated to their past than fire fighters, but don’t expect that to rub off on the general public. Our town has a 1911 Kissel the local dept. restored. At the last local car show, I was the only one looking at it, but unlike a museum, at least it’s being used.
If a fire company were to hold a fundraiser or get a substantial donation, they would be able to purchase this. But it is illegal to purchase or maintain a non-service apparatus (hobby truck) with federal, state, or local taxpayer monies.
This is an amazing piece of preserved history. I think the price is a little ambitious though. Unfortunately, fire apparatus doesn’t retain the value that other vintage vehicles do. I have found many tankers, pumpers, and brush trucks over the years for a couple thousand dollars, and most of them are pristine time warps with less that 10K miles on them. The seller seems very attached to this truck. I hope it finds a buyer that will continue to enjoy it as much they did.
They ruined it when they put on those new-fangled pneumatic tires! What kind of barbarian rejects solid rubber tires? I fear for my country.
Actually, I read, Continental tires introduced a pneumatic truck tire in 1911. Goodyear sponsored a cross country trek with pneumatic tires in 1917. While it took a while for trucks, many fire engines used pneumatic tires by 1918.
When you take a close look at the 1918 photo, it sure looks like solid rubber tires.
Such a wonderful thing needs the right person to be the steward and guide it into the future and the next “owner”. Something like this you are a caretaker for a while assuring its survival.
I love it. I’d like to have a daily driver of this scale. Something to scare all the crappy SUVs and giant pickup trucks clogging the roads. MY ROADS! Get the hell out of the way!!
I highly recommend a visit to that Texas Fire Museum in east Dallas. The collection is incredible. Not only do they display and store the engines owned by others, but they also have a complete restoration shop where the trucks are restored. They have everything from a horse-drawn fire wagon to the earliest motor trucks, to fire trucks from the 1980s. And admission is free, donations accepted. Our car club has visited there several times–well worth the trip!
Elmira, NY! Now a shadow of its former self. Mark Twain lived there at one time.
Nope – it’s gone.First they moved it to the Charleston,SC area,
then after a couple of moves there,& being bought by “investors”,
they shut it down.There were still engines on the assembly line when
they did.I wonder if some departments didn’t get theirs?
Yes, sadly, Elmira has gone downhill. Born and raised there. Samuel Clemens/Mark Twain is buried there in Woodlawn Cemetary and his study is located on the Elmira College campus.
But does it have cup holders, cruise control, nav system, and backup cameras?
My “retirement” job is in the restoration shop of the Nassau County (NY) Fire Museum. A beautiful rig indeed! I too hope it doesn’t get cut up into a speedster. Twelve plugs because it has dual ignition: battery/electric starter and magneto/crank backup. Buda repowers were not uncommon in that era, rigs such as this could have an in-service lifespan of 40-50 years in several departments. Many updates were often applied over the years but this one looks pretty much original.
Seller needs to get in touch w Jay Leno, Big Dogs Garage in Burbank California, he loves those things w history and documentation
Yikes…if only it could talk… It’s way too old for me, however I have the outmost respect for those who manage to keep such equipment stored and alive through such a long time once they’re retired from regular service. It’s never gonna be a massive moneymaker but the vehicle’s history and documentation will be priceless.
101 years; that’s a long time – think about it,this engine was delievered before the end of WW1!
When you are in business, and that business ain’t makin’ money, it is called a “hobby”. They teach you in business school that the key difference between a hobby and a business is one MAKES money, the other COSTS money. Many have a hard time keeping these two concepts straight and their business tanks, disillusion with their hobby sets in. I often tell struggling employees, you have a job to make money. All that other stuff you do is for fun, and costs money. That is why you have a job ! Kapische ?
Now, if you want to blur the lines a bit, buy the truck and use it for your business. The cost of the truck is a business expense, the operation of the truck is a business expense, the upkeep of the truck is a business expense, but the driving and ownership of the truck is pure fun. This assumes you have a moneymaking business to attach it to, AND that you enjoy piloting such a beast around.
It should come as no surprise that all of my personal automotive activities would fall into the HOBBY category then…!
Mine too. I have needed to explain this concept ad nauseum to various individuals during the course of my life, who thought my money would be better spent elsewhere. Some people just do not “get it”.
Why do I get up in the morning ? To go to work.
Why do I go to work ? To pay my bills.
Why do I pay my bills ? That’s right, so I might have some extra dough left over for pleasure activities !
Why do I do any of this ? Because someone forgot to include my name on their list of Trust Fund beneficiaries !
What’s up with THAT ?
I wonder what the original engine was. Waukesha? Hall-Scott? They both produced dual ignition gas engines.
I wince and cringe to think someone will hack this up to make a f’n car hauler.
LaFrance built their own engines until about 1962 at their Elmira NY plant. The plant had a foundry that produced castings for engine blocks and pump cases. The original 4 and 6 cylinder engines utilized individually cast cylinder blocks. They began producing gasoline V12’s in 1931 but would install any engine the customer specified. In later years as the V12 lost popularity, many rigs were specified with Continental or Waukesha engines.
Very Cute
But where do I put it ?
And what do you do with it.
If you were a firefighter, this might very well fit onto an existing
old car interest nicely. Were it me (and I once was a firefighter), I’d lose the fire gear and build a less specialized body for it, that I could use, such as a flatbed. But that would be rather sacreligious, given how unmolested most of this rig is.
For now, I’ll stick with my common-as-dirt Model T flatbed for my ancient, use-it-like-a-rented-mule work and hauling truck jollies.
2years ago now I purchased a 50 foot straight ladder truck with tiller all original, it , had all nesting ladders nice original lettering and gold leaf , it was a 1912 Seagraves with engine by Seagraves, my grandson and I got it running ( loud ) straight pipe . It sounded great , smoked a little . I sold it to someone in Georgia any one know of its whereabouts now ? 207 399 0437
Would love to own this, but at a fraction of the asking price.